09/13/2013 In Podcast Episodes
Listener Tom Seiniger
Episode notes:
Follow Tom on Twitter @Thomothy
Episode Transcript:
Episode 132--Tom Seiniger
Paul: Welcome to episode 132 with my guest, listener Tom Seiniger. I'm Paul Gilmartin, this is the Mental Illness Happy Hour, an hour or two of honesty about all the battles in our heads, from medically diagnosed conditions and past traumas to everyday compulsive negative thinking. This show is not meant to be a substitute for professional mental counseling, it's not a doctor's office, it's more like a waiting room that doesn't suck. The website for this show is mentalpod.com. Mentalpod is also the Twitter name you can follow me at, and if you want to buy me a license plate you could have that as the...Oh, I want to take that five seconds back. Please go check out the website, there's all kinds of stuff there. Surveys you can take, you can see how other people respond to the surveys, you can join the forum, you can read blogs, you can support the show, or you can just go there and stare at the screen and fuck yourself. A lot of people enjoy doing that. Let's get into it. Oh, a couple of things I want to mention first, Podfest is around the corner. It is Friday through Sunday, I guess that would be Friday, October 4th through Sunday, October 6th, here in Los Angeles. Weekend passes are still available, I believe, and I am allowed to give out one free pass to a listener, so maybe we'll do that for Podfest. Stay tuned. I hate when it doesn't go smoothly, but thank God for your guys' feedback which lets me know it's okay. Stay tuned to next week's episode, there will be more details on anybody plAnning on coming how you can maybe be the person that wins the free pass for Podfest. And I will be doing my show from noon-2pm on Sunday, October 6th, at Podfest. It's in Santa Monica right on the ocean, so it should be beautiful. I'm really looking forward to it. A lot of great people performing, doing their podcasts at that festival. Go to lapodfest.com to see who all is performing.
I want to read this email, his name is Christopher, and he writes "Hey Paul, I've been listening to your podcast for about six months now, and it's been a great tool for my own recovery from childhood sexual abuse. Anyways, on your most recent episode with Cameron Esposito, you referred to a person as a she-male. The correct term is transgender. I know you didn't mean any harm, but terms like she-male are harmful and offensive to members of the trans community. If you are still confused on how to talk about this group of people, refer to the buzzfeed article, whose link I have included below." That link is too long for me to list, but I'm sure if you went to buzzfeed and did a search about everything you always wanted to know about transgendered people, because I believe that's the title of the article. Yes, I got a bunch of emails from people and I really regret using that term. I am a work in progress and I'm learning, in fact I'm happy to report that I've got a listener coming in from Orange County tomorrow to do an interview, and they're transgendered, and I'm looking forward to that because, as you can tell from me using that word, I'm a little clueless about that segment of our population and I think most people are, and I'd really like to get to know more of that. So, apologies.
I want to read this happy moment from a guy named Nelson, and he writes "One of my happiest moments occurred when I was about 11. A cousin had introduced me to Dungeons and Dragons, and my mom got me a D&D Dungeonmasters Guide for my birthday and I was so excited since playing that game had allowed me to finally be someone different. I could be someone cool and strong and handsome and smart, things I never believed I was. Roll some dice, invent a persona, and presto, I was someone else. I'm sure my parents didn't see it as anything more than a weird game, but their being supportive of my hobby meant the world to me. Thirty years later, I still get great enjoyment playing that weird game, even though I have finally learned to love myself a lot more than I did then." that's awesome, thank you for that, Nelson. And that reminds me of this quote from Andrea Gibson, and she says "Our insanity isn't that we see people who aren't there, it's that we ignore the ones who are."
[Intro/theme music]
I'm here with Tom Seiniger, who is a listener. He's 22 years old and he sent me an email--how long ago was it, Tom?
Tom: Around Thanksgiving, so end of November, probably about 10 weeks ago.
Paul: OK. You live here locally, in Los Angeles, and I was so touched by your email and I think I related a lot to it, too, because there's some similarities in our stories and so I thought let's get together and talk and record. Tell the listener about yourself. As I said, you're 22. Are you from here originally?
Tom: Yeah, I'm from Los Angeles, born and raised. Spent my teenage years in Orange County and then moved back here about four years ago.
Paul: Is there a career path?
Tom: I'm a graphic designer right now, which is what my dad did, and then about two years ago I realized I've always wanted to do comedy, and so I've started doing that at night. I'm just starting out because I was too afraid to even get on stage for the first year and a half.
Paul: That's a good instinct to have, to be afraid.
Tom: I'm still terrified but it helps. I feel so good even for those three minutes that I maybe get to do a few nights a week.
Paul: So you feel like there's something inside you that you need to express, that graphic design can't really express?
Tom: I feel like I just need to be creative and I want people to see what I do and like it, and in graphic design it's more criticism than praise. And also sitting at a desk the last three years doing it I've gained about 40 pounds.
Paul: What did you weigh, 80 pounds before that?
Tom: No, I hide it with my clothes very well.
Paul: Well, skinny would be one of the first words I would use to describe you so fuck you.
Tom: That's very kind, but my girlfriend would probably not use that word ever.
Paul: Well, so where would be a good place to start with your story? The beginning?
Tom: I guess the beginning, because I feel like my childhood was very formative in how tense it was, 'cause I was raised and I could tell from a very early age that my parents' affection was very one-sided. I could see that my dad was madly in love with my mom and that she was falling out of love with him very quickly.
Paul: How old were you when you first noticed that?
Tom: Probably about eight or nine. Because there would be times they'd come home from going out to a romantic dinner or something and she would immediately lock herself into her separate bedroom that she had just moved into, and wouldn't interact with him for the rest of the night.
Paul: What do you remember thinking or feeling when you would see that?
Tom: I would just think it's strange because all my friends' parents slept in the same bedroom, and as far as I could remember my parents never had.
Paul: Did you worry that the family was gonna break up?
Tom: No, 'cause they always seemed to make up with each other, so I thought it was gonna last and I also think my mom was afraid to leave my dad because he was the sole financier of the family. So when they did get divorced--
Paul: At what age were you?
Tom: I was 13, which I think--
Paul: Okay, so five years later.
Tom: Five years later, I think that's the best age I could have been for it to happen, but--
Paul: I'm gonna say 50 would have been the best age. But no, I feel like each parents' relationship, there's no hard and fast kind of rule about parents shouldn't get divorced, parents should...Some parents should absolutely get divorced and some parents should stick it out and fight it.
Tom: Absolutely. Whenever I hear someone say that someone should stay together for the kids I just think that advice is not good across the board. There are people that should absolutely not be together, 'cause I think it's good to have two happy divorced parents than two miserable parents that are together.
Paul: Yeah. As long as those parents are still gonna be in their kids' lives and not use them as pawns once they're divorced.
Tom: Well, that's what ended up happening to me, absolutely.
Paul: Well, let's back up a little bit. So, you're eight years old, and you can see that your mom isn't giving your dad the affection that you wished that she would give him, or that he wished that he was getting from her. Was there an instinct in you to try to be more of something to try to heal it, or did you just feel like you were just a passive observer and nothing you could do would influence it and that wasn't your job anyway?
Tom: I feel like all the affection that my mom wouldn't give my dad, or even my sister, it was all sent to me.
Paul: Boy, am I glad I have you on as a guest.
Tom: I walked on water, as far as she was concerned. I could do no wrong. She spoiled me silly to the point where sometimes the love felt inappropriate, I felt like she loved me in a way that a normal parent doesn't really love a child, but it was great because she doted on me so much and spurned my dad all the time, he developed a little bit of an Oedipal complex, I think, so I feel like he pushed himself away from me when I was a kid. 'Cause me and my dad have only had a good relationship I'd say within the last four or five years.
Paul: How would your mom's relationship to you be inappropriate?
Tom: I feel like she only wanted me to spend time with her and never anyone else. When I first started dating she was incredibly jealous of any girl I brought around, even male friends, even my guy friends, there'd be times when she'd fake having an illness or I would need to take her somewhere because she was too weak to go, just so she could spend more time with me and me not be able to be around anyone else.
Paul: Wow. That's a heavy burden.
Tom: Yeah. And I put up with it for a long time, and right before I moved back to LA, my last night with my friends, my mom faked that she was hearing voices from her medication and made me take her to the hospital. So on the last time that I'm probably gonna see my friends for at least a few months, I was taken away from them. And I was furious about it but there was nothing I could do. I couldn't say no, she made such a convincing argument.
Paul: Did you believe that she was really hearing voices?
Tom: I think a little bit of me bought into it, but by the time I was there and taking her to the hospital she seemed completely fine, and then I was just stuck having to wait in the waiting room until three in the morning.
Paul: Has there been another man in her life since your dad?
Tom: There was. She was with a much younger guy after my dad and--
Paul: That just made my skin crawl.
Tom: Yeah, it was the worst. But kudos to that guy for putting up with her for as long as he did.
Paul: How old was she and how old was he?
Tom: When my parents got divorced my mom--I don't know her exact age--but she would have been in her late 40s, and he was probably in his early 30s.
Paul: For some reason I was picturing that he was like your age.
Tom: No. The age difference was something I see here living in LA every day, but to a 13-year-old kid it was very strange.
Paul: Yeah.
Tom: But since then there was no other man in her life. But I definitely felt like I was the only person that mattered to her and that I needed to constantly be around or else something terrible would happen.
Paul: So you felt like you were her emotional savior, kind of.
Tom: I certainly was.
Paul: At what age do you remember consciously feeling that you had to be her emotional savior?
Tom: Probably 15-16. Right at the height of when I first started going out and hanging out with my friends all night, started dating, there was a change. I wasn't her little boy she could control anymore, I was this new person who didn't want to spend every waking minute with her.
Paul: In her sickness that must have been so threatening to her, if you were her life preserver.
Tom: Absolutely. There was a time in 9th grade, so I would have been 14 or 15, where I got mono and had to drop out of school for six months because I was bedridden--
Paul: She must have loved that.
Tom: Oh, I've never seen her happier. It was probably the greatest time of her life. It wasn't bad for me either, I got to miss six months of school.
Paul: What are some other seminal moments from childhood that you can think of? Or is that the big important ones?
Tom: That, and I realize now that not having a relationship with my dad, when I was a kid it didn't really get in the way but now I kind of wish he was there more because there are times when I feel like I'm not like a guy. Like I don't know how to do manly things...I don't even know how to ride a bike because he was never around to teach me. So sometimes things like that will come up and I kind of wish he'd been around more. But he was working incredibly hard, but he had time for my sister and not for me, but then again my mom had time for me and not for my sister, so it felt normal, almost, I thought maybe that's just how it was with parents and children.
Paul: You know, from what I've read, that's a pretty common thing that happens in family dynamics, is they kind of pair off. Parents and siblings kind of pair off and become each other's best buddies, obviously sometimes to a degree that's not healthy. So you're 15 years old, and you're beginning to feel that pull between becoming your own person and hanging out with your friends and your mom wanting you home. How does that begin to affect you?
Tom: I started to rebel and act out in ways that any teenager would. I started smoking when I was 15, and still do, unfortunately. I never really drank heavily because I never liked the way it made me feel or the way it tasted, which I still can't stand. But when I was 17 I was a complete mess. I was sneaking off at lunch to do cocaine in my car, and ditching class to go hang out with my friends who were not good people, I realize that now. I think I wanted her to see that I wasn't that perfect child that she loved, I wanted her to see that I wasn't a good person and she was better off having me out of the house.
Paul: Did you feel also like there was a part of you that thought 'If I can become less lovable, she won't cling to me as much'?
Tom: I think so, I thought if I become...I wouldn't say I was a drug addict, but I think I was trying to put out the appearance that I was so she'd sort of push herself away from me. And then I realized that she was a drug addict the entire time I was doing that, so she had no idea.
Paul: So what was your mom addicted to, other than you?
Tom: She started out taking Ambien, prescribed by a doctor to fall asleep easier, and then she started taking upwards of five Ambiens a day, all throughout the day, just to try to numb herself. And it was almost solely Ambien. Once in a while I'm sure there were other pills in there, but pretty much it was solely Ambien. And it completely changed who she was as a person.
Paul: How so?
Tom: She used to be very funny and very witty, extremely smart. She was an extremely smart person, and she just kind of became this zombie who never got out of bed anymore.
Paul: Wow.
Tom: Yeah.
Paul: So how did that progress, then? Where did that go?
Tom: She started doctor shopping, buying pills that were questionable off the internet, spending upwards of I think over a thousand dollars a month on Ambien alone. She would make me buy it for her sometimes, or try to persuade me to. I didn't do that more than twice I don't think. And eventually I think she didn't even want to be a person anymore. I don't think she wanted to be awake and be conscious, she just wanted to be asleep all day. Maybe her falling out of love with my dad, if that is what happened, is what made her look for an escape like that. I think also she might have just been bored.
Paul: Yeah. People get bored in marriages.
Tom: Oh yeah. I think she was just bored with her life in general. She was a well-off housewife, her kids were at school all day, her husband was gone for weeks at a time with clients and stuff, and I think she just didn't have friends to fall back on and just got bored and started to occupy herself by popping pills all day.
Paul: So then what's the next progression of either her sickness or your issues, or your relationship?
Tom: Once I moved out and moved back to LA, she was on her own and--
Paul: And had she gotten help at this point by going to a therapist or something for her addiction? Or was she in denial about her addiction?
Tom: Actually when I moved out, I completely forgot this even happened--
Paul: How old were you when you moved out?
Tom: Nineteen. And--
Paul: So just three years ago.
Tom: Yeah. And her and my sister had moved in with each other 'cause my sister knew my mom couldn't be alone and my sister, with my mom's alimony, had a much easier way to pay the rent for a nicer place. So they moved in together, and they lasted about two months because my mom immediately started talking about killing herself and that's when me and my sister tried to take her to therapy and tried to check her into a rehab facility and she just refused to go, refused to get help, and then she moved out on her own.
Paul: Parents that confide in their children that they want to kill themselves, that is such a fucking boulder to drop on them.
Tom: It's terrible. It's terrible for anyone to say that to anybody, because it puts the worst kind of pressure on the other person 'cause you're suddenly solely responsible.
Paul: Especially if that person isn't actively seeking help, if they're just standing still in their shit. I think it's okay to share with a friend who knows that you're working on yourself and you're seeking help to say 'Man, I'm just not happy to be alive today.' I think that's okay and that can be very healthy, but that person has to know that you've got tools at your disposal that you're reaching out for, but when somebody is just stuck and doesn't want to take anybody's advice and doesn't want to ask for help, I just think that is incredibly selfish, especially to do that to your kids.
Tom: And when we took her to the therapist and had a family therapy session, she was mean. She didn't think we were doing it because we love her and want her to get help, she just started attacking us immediately, and I think that was really the beginning of when me and my sister just couldn't do it anymore and we started cutting off contact slowly but surely.
Paul: How did that feel?
Tom: Good.
Paul: It would have been like a vacation.
Tom: It felt great. I had just started art school and I was living on my own for the first time, and I just didn't need that creeping up my neck every day.
Paul: What would you feel like, and again this is me bringing my story to play here, what does it feel like when you see your mom's number come up on your phone?
Tom: I feel like I should have mentioned this. She did pass away a few weeks ago.
Paul: Oh my God.
Tom: Yeah. I can't believe I forgot to mention that, I think it's still such a new thing that it doesn't seem like a part of my life yet.
Paul: I'm so sorry.
Tom: It's okay, it sucks to say this but I feel very relieved.
Paul: Did she take her life?
Tom: She did. The toxicology report hasn't come back yet, whether it was accidental or intentional, but I know it was intentional.
Paul: I'm so sorry.
Tom: It sucks that that's what had to happen, but it's what she wanted and she got it and all of our lives are going to be easier now, I hate to say.
Paul: Thank you for being honest by saying that, because I think a lot of people wouldn't be able to say that. I had this thought when I walked past my mom's bedroom when I was staying with her a couple of years ago, and was up before her and she was still in bed and as I walked past I thought to myself 'I hope she never wakes up', and then I felt like a terrible person for thinking that. And then I thought 'You know what, your feelings are your feelings.'
Tom: I feel like that's a totally normal way to feel when you have a parent who's abusive in one way or another. Why does my life have to be so stressful and so terrible because of your shit?
Paul: Yeah. So many parents can't recognize that they're putting their needs ahead of their children, 'cause they're so trapped in their sickness and it really bums me out that people have to think that suicide is a better option than reaching out for help. Because if your mom had reached out for help, if she had overcome that fear of opening up to people that are appropriate, who knows what might have happened, but that fear is so intense, that fear of...I can't imagine what happened in your mom's life that made being vulnerable so scary to her.
Tom: I don't know. And I will definitely never know now. It just seemed like she never wanted help. About two years ago, which was her first suicide attempt, it became clear after that that she had no intention of ever getting her life back on track. There were some times when she did show hope when she was in various programs and talked about getting a job, getting her own place, and getting her life back together, and then immediately after she would get out of the program she'd start doctor shopping again and would invariably land in the hospital.
Paul: So she did try to get sober?
Tom: I think she tried to appease me and my sister but I don't think there was ever really an intention. I mean two rehabs she was in she got kicked out of because her tox screens would come back positive.
Paul: Yeah. Nobody can get sober for somebody else, at least not long-term. At least that's my belief. You may go in and get sober for other people and then want it for yourself, but ultimately there's so much painful work that needs to be done to recover that you've gotta want to want it like a drowning person wants a life preserver.
Tom: Speaking as a sober person, doing it for yourself is the only reason to do it, 'cause you should be the person that's most important to you. And I was never a huge drinker or anything before, but I just figured my life will be better without this, if I just have a clear head all the time, and once I realized I was doing it for me it was easy.
Paul: And so have you just maintained sobriety on your own, or do you go to support groups?
Tom: No, my sobriety is not an important factor in my story because I never hit rock bottom or even hurt anyone doing it, but just one day I decided I don't need to drink or do any drugs, I'm just not gonna do them.
Paul: That must be nice, to be able to do that.
Tom: There's moments when it's hard, like obviously when I got the call telling me that my mom had passed away I immediately wanted to at least have a beer or something, but that passed within a few minutes.
Paul: When you first got that phone call, what did you think, feel?
Tom: It was a call from a blocked number, and for the last two years that has been someone telling me she's in the hospital for some reason or another. And I picked up and the voice on the other end says "This is Officer Torres with the LAPD," and I immediately thought 'Oh, here we go again. I have to go to the hospital now and come pick her up.' And then he said "I'm looking for Francie Seiniger's next of kin," and my heart just dropped and I'd been expecting that phone call for the last two years and I thought I was mentally prepared for it, but I wasn't, and--
Paul: How can you ever be?
Tom: I don't know. And there was a few minutes of calm where I was able to rationally think about it and then I just cried for about three hours, and I got it out and that was it and I haven't cried about it since, and now it's a sense of relief that it's over. I don't have to constantly have in the back of my mind that thought 'Is today gonna be the day when I get that phone call?'
Paul: That makes sense. That makes sense. So let's talk about you and what you struggle with.
Tom: Anxiety, I think would be the number one thing. I've always been a very stressful person, I've struggled with panic attacks since I was probably 12 or 13 years old.
Paul: And how would they present themselves? What did it feel like, what were your thoughts?
Tom: The pretty classic panic attack of just my heart pounding, sweating, feeling like I am having a heart attack, like something's very wrong, I'm not gonna be okay. And then sometimes I'll get so worked up that I faint, which I prefer, because I wake up feeling mostly okay, but then--
Paul: Faint standing up? Or sitting down?
Tom: I can't stand when I'm having a panic attack. I immediately will sit down, even if it's just on the sidewalk, I will just sit down on the ground 'cause if I try to move I'd probably fall over, just teeter. But sometimes when i don't faint they'll last for over an hour sometimes.
Paul: That's gotta be agonizing.
Tom: It's terrible. And there's a lot of involuntary crying, which I don't like 'cause it makes it very hard to hide if I'm around people when that happens.
Paul: What's with the dude losing his shit on the curb??
Tom: Oh, I had one at work, and God bless my coworkers, they all just carried by as if nothing was going on, which was great because the last thing I want is attention for that reason and then someone saw how sweaty I was and they were like "Are you sick? You should just go home." And that was good. I was able to avoid having to tell them I was having a panic attack.
Paul: So what kind of support system, if any, do you have in place to deal with this stuff?
Tom: I have started seeing a therapist sort of infrequently, and it helps. I haven't been prescribed medication for it because I feel like, and he feels also, that it's not completely necessary for me because it's fairly infrequent and I've been able to manage it for so long, but it helps with the everyday stuff because if even the smallest problem presents itself to me, it becomes the size of the world on my shoulders, like--
Paul: When you're in panic attack mode, or just in general?
Tom: Oh just in everyday life. Like the other day my car thermostat went above the middle for the first time and I immediately pulled over and started Googling on my phone what could be happening, like I thought my car was going to explode if I kept driving it, and every small problem is the biggest problem I've ever faced in my life at that point.
Paul: Man, when the mind decides it's gonna extrapolate into the doomy future, it is a powerful fucking CGI death machine.
Tom: Oh, I have the worst '70s Scorcese downward spiral every day. The worst is--
Paul: Do you shave your hair into a Mohawk and look at yourself in the mirror?
Tom: Maybe once more of it starts falling out I'll do that. But like there'll be times when I'll send a text message to someone and they won't respond immediately and I'll immediately go through a million different scenarios of why they hate me and why they're plotting to never talk to me again. I'll fantasize about what's gonna come back, just the vitriol they're gonna spit at me, and then they'll say "Oh, sorry, I was in the shower," and then it's all gone.
Paul: Yeah. As you talk about this, you're such a personable guy, you're so able to articulate your feelings, there's a genuine warmth to you, I can't help but think how much not only you would benefit from a support group--and I don't know what type of support group would work for you--but other people would benefit from having you in a support group because you have an ability to be honest about what's going on with you in a way that doesn't feel self-pitying or draining, and I just think it would be so nice for you to be around other people whose brains work the way you do, so you can be reminded every day that "I'm not alone."
Tom: That is so nice. That being said, I am incredibly draining on some people. I think that's what was always so appealing about standup, to me, was these were people just airing out their dirty laundry and people loved them for it. So I feel like maybe that's my support group.
Paul: Yeah, maybe that's it, or maybe just try a bunch of different ones. 'Cause a lot of times too, if you go to the wrong meeting for a support group it can really turn you off. I have friends that have gone to support groups and because that first meeting was an unpleasant experience they will never go back because they're convinced that meeting represents all of that support group, and that's not always the case. So I'm just throwing that out there, but those wires to connect to another human being, some people it's like there isn't even an inch of that laid yet, and with you I get the feeling like there's some good yardage of wires already laid, ready to connect to other people, that's just my sense.
Tom: Oh, no, I'm a total empath. I love talking to people and connecting with people and I like trying to help people. Admittedly I'm not always good at it because sometimes I'll just get angry when people don't listen to me, but I love talking to people.
Paul: So as you say that it makes me wonder if one of your challenges then isn't going to be not trying to fix people but to be there for them and to listen and to listen and to learn when to let it go when they're not taking your advice and how to deal with that. 'Cause that's something I've had to deal with very early on, I used to take it as a personal failure if somebody didn't take my advice, and then I realized people hear what they need to hear when they're ready to hear it. And some people, like your mom, were never ready to hear it. Other people, maybe they're 50 when they're ready to hear it. And for us to expect them to hear it when we're ready for them to hear it can be crazy-making not only to them, it can be off-putting to them, but it can be crazy-making to us because we're under the delusion that we can control that person's destiny.
Tom: Oh, God, I hate the word "delusion" but it's completely true. Yeah, when I offer help to someone and they decide to disregard what I say I get so frustrated because part of the delusion is I think I know better than most people, which is not true, but...
Paul: Well, if you think about it, the experience you had with your mom, how can that not create a certain grandiosity in you, that here you are as a child who is more interesting and lovable than her husband? Whose every move is fascinating and joy-filling to her? And that doesn't mean that you're not a special person who has all of those qualities, but--and dude, I'm talking about myself as well.
Tom: Oh I know. The mirror I'm looking into right now is horrifying.
Paul: Yeah. So our challenge is to understand that we're enough but not think that we are everything. And then on a bad day, nothing.
Tom: Oh, I feel like I am nothing so many days, but then the next day, everything's gonna work out for me. And I just wish I had more of those days.
Paul: That binary thinking is so draining because the ego thinks you're either the kind or the peasant, it can never have the concept that you're one of many, which is what we are, we're one of many. We're special in our own way but we're not that big of a deal in the scope of the universe, and that has to be enough. To me, what makes that feeling that I am special but not that big of a deal is having a conversation like I'm having with you right now, it reminds me that I'm not alone, somebody else lived through a similar version of what I've lived through and we're both still standing.
Tom: Yeah, I feel like I do need to remind myself that everybody goes through their own shit one way or another and everybody has trauma and if people were just more open about it, everyone would feel a lot more connected, I think.
Paul: Yeah, they would.
Tom: And that's why I love your podcast so much, is it's showing that whether someone's a famous comedian or a popular songwriter or just a listener, everyone has baggage and we're all carrying it around every day and it's weighing everyone down.
Paul: We're all feeling the same feelings, they're just coming in different packages, you know? And that's the best compliment I can get, 'cause that's what I set out to do with this was to show that everybody experiences crushing self-doubt and feeling that I'm fucked, I've blown it, I've made a decision that's just ruined my life and there's gonna be no recovering from it.
Tom: It's helped me, like Jamie Denbo's episode.
Paul: Love Jamie.
Tom: She's amazing. Her talking about being raised in that very overbearing Jewish childhood made me feel so much better, 'cause that's exactly how my childhood was. We never went to temple or spoke Hebrew or anything, we were the most relaxed Jews Southern California has to offer--
Paul: Did you build pyramids?
Tom: Look at me, I'm not good at manual labor. But that sense of fear is always there. Like my mom always used to say "If there's ever another Holocaust you're so lucky you don't look Jewish 'cause you'll be able to slip by while the rest of us are killed."
Paul: That is so fucked-up on so many different levels.
Tom: Yeah, and I was eight at the time. So, things I knew when I was eight years old is there's going to be another Holocaust and because I have blue eyes I'll be on the other side of the fence watching them thrown into the mass grave.
Paul: Wow. Your mom sounds like she had a lot on her plate.
Tom: Well she was Jewish in a very small town where I think they were the only Jewish family, so I think it was engrained in her that that's something you have to hide, because she was attacked for it as a child. And I grew up in Los Angeles where there's nothing but Jews, especially 'cause I grew up in Beverly Hills. But because of what she would tell me, when I wasn't around people who I knew were also Jewish, I would just completely try to not mention it because I was afraid they would think differently of me.
Paul: Because of the thoughts that were laid in there by your mom?
Tom: Yeah, I basically just figured 'Oh, I have to hide who I am because if they figure out who I am, bad things are gonna happen to me. And of course that's ridiculous, there's never gonna be another Holocaust, I don't think, but for a while it made me really try to hide what my real identity was. And I don't really identify as a Jewish person religiously, but it's engrained in my DNA that I have those traits and I can't hide it, and people love it. I don't know why people are so afraid to hide their demons, I feel like they make us more interesting and people love when you talk about it.
Paul: You know what my opinion on that is, 'cause a lot of us were raised in invalidating environments where our vulnerability was used against us and we had to shut that door to protect ourselves, and that's why it's been so liberating for me personally to find people who are like-minded and suffer through the same things because I can open that door around them and it feels amazing.
Tom: Oh, it's the best.
Paul: So you know.
Tom: I remember the first time me and my girlfriend swapped traumas with each other, it was the best. I immediately knew I was in love with this person because she was so fucked-up also, for different reasons, but she gets it. And I don't have to use sympathy as a weapon with her, which is something that's really gross that I do a lot.
Paul: Are you ever afraid or concerned that you are only going to be attracted to people that have drama and chaos in their lives? That you'll be bored by somebody who's present and open and available?
Tom: Yes, and only because that's exactly what's been shown to me. I've gone out with well-adjusted people before and they just don't seem as interesting, and I'm afraid that if they find out about my life they'll think I'm too damaged to be with, so I think I just subconsciously know what people have trauma and I gravitate toward those people, at least in a romantic sense.
Paul: Yeah, there seems to be something in some of us where there's an unhealthy itch that only chaos can scratch, and it makes us feel a certain excitement that we mistake for healthy attraction.
Tom: Absolutely. When someone will offhandedly mention something extremely fucked-up from their childhood, a light goes off and my eyes light up and it's like 'Tell me more about that. I want to know. You seem so interesting, let's trauma-bond.'
Paul: Yeah. You want to give me a boner, cut me down.
Tom: Absolutely.
Paul: That's hilarious. Anything else you want to touch on before we do some fears and loves?
I'm trying to think if there's anything I left out...I think something--this is quick--something interesting that happened when my mom passed away is that a lot of my fears went away.
Paul: Wow.
Tom: I used to constantly be scared that I was gonna get fired from my job or something, or that I was never gonna succeed, or that I was gonna get into a car accident that day and a lot of that's just gone now, it seems so small in comparison. Like of course I still have weird esoteric fears that we're gonna get to in a minute, but I just feel so unafraid and part of me feels a lot calmer. Over the last two years my hair was falling out in clumps randomly because of the residual stress from what my mom was doing--
Paul: And she had tried to kill herself how many times in the last two years?
Tom: Four unsuccessful attempts that we know of and then the final one that took. The first one she jumped off a four-story building and lived.
Paul: What??
Tom: Which is amazing to me. When we were at the hospital the doctor said the fact that she's alive is a miracle, which I'm like 'Don't use the word miracle, you're a doctor. That makes me doubt all of your qualifications.' And then the other three were attempted overdoses. But the fact that she lived through jumping off a building is...Part of me is like I guess she wasn't meant to go then, but I don't know why because it was just two years of misery following it.
Paul: Wow. Yeah. That's a lot on your plate, Tom.
Tom: It takes its toll, but I've got too much in front of me to let it hold me back. I've just got to keep moving forward, that's all you can do.
Paul: It is. That's all you can do. And sometimes it's so hard when you're depressed or you're anxious because you just want to go to bed and just--
Tom: Well, that's all I want to do all the time anyway. There were days when I just couldn't move, I would just be paralyzed by the weight of all these problems coming down on me, and I don't feel any of that anymore.
Paul: I'd just like to interject at this point, I see a lot of parents who fill out the Shame and Secrets survey and they'll say that if it weren't for their children, they would kill themselves. That that's the only thing keeping them alive. And to any of those who heard what you said and are thinking "Oh, well then I should kill myself because I'm a burden to my children," I'd like to say no, I think Tom's first choice would probably have been that his mom gets help and sticks around and becomes healthy.
Tom: Yeah, absolutely. This was the best case scenario because all the other best case scenarios had gone out the window a long time ago. Obviously I would prefer that my mom be alive and well and i could go see her later but she didn't want to be alive anymore and there was nothing I guess really to hold her back, because we'd tried everything else to help and it wasn't there. And I don't think suicide's ever the answer, but I feel like in her case it was kind of the only choice she had left.
Paul: Because she was unwilling to learn a new way of living.
Tom: And to the parents who fill out the survey and said the only thing keeping them alive is their kids, hearing that breaks my heart but I'm just glad that at least they have that. And I feel like if you can stay alive for your kids, you'll find more things to stay alive for.
Paul: Yeah. And if you really love them, even though it's uncomfortable, get help for yourself for your kids.
Tom: Get help and stay around. Your kids are not gonna be better off that you're gone, ever.
Paul: No. Some fears and loves?
Tom: Yes. Let me get out my phone.
Paul: You want to start?
Tom: Are we doing fears first?
Paul: Yeah.
Tom: Ok. I'm afraid that when I see a crazy, lonely, old homeless man walking down the street, it's actually me from the future coming back to give me a message, but he's too crazy and fucked-up from time travel that he just walks by.
Paul: I'm gonna be reading the fears of a listener named Debra. She says "I'm afraid that I will never lose these 20+ pounds."
Tom: Oh I know that one. I'm scared that there's gonna be a financial disaster in my life and I'm gonna end up completely penniless.
Paul: "I'm afraid that I'm going to run over someone backing out of a parking space someday." I have that one, too.
Tom: Me too. And I'm also afraid that my brakes are gonna give out when I'm going downhill and my car will take on infinite mass and I'll just destroy all the cars in front of me and kill a bunch of people, and then survivor's guilt is another thing.
Paul: And then the forensics won't be able to prove that your brakes went out and they're gonna say that you plowed into them intentionally. That's also where my brain goes.
Tom: Oh, that's another fear I have. I'm afraid I'll get pulled over during a routine traffic stop and there'll be a huge misunderstanding and I'll be jailed for something I didn't do.
Paul: Debra says "I'm afraid that I'll never have the courage to try therapy." Oh, I hope you do.
Tom: I'm just gonna put it out there, therapy's great. You should not be afraid to try it. The way someone sold it to me was you get to complain to someone for an hour and they have to listen to you. I'm scared that I'll have to choose between comedy and my relationship.
Paul: "I'm afraid that if and when I do try therapy, I'll think I'm somehow smarter than the therapist." I think a lot of people do that, to which I would say it's not about smarts, it's about unloading and energy that's trapped inside you.
Tom: Oh, absolutely. There are times when I've talked to therapists throughout my life when I kind of got that feeling of 'You don't know, I know. I know. Just listen to me.' That's all it really takes. Just find someone who's willing to talk to you.
Paul: I returned somebody's phone call the other day, it was somebody who's new in our support group, and this person had probably called me three or four times before that and I'd listened to them kind of talk about what was going on with them and their struggles, and that morning that I called them back I knew that I needed to talk about what was going on with me, so I confided in this person what I was struggling with and they were able to help me. And this person is brand new in this support group but they heard me, I felt felt, I felt heard, mission accomplished. So somebody doesn't have to be a rocket scientist for you to get that feeling of healing, you just have to feel felt and heard and understood. That's been my experience.
Tom: Exactly. I feel like a lot of the stigma around therapy is that you're going in there to be analyzed and have medication thrown at you, but really you're just going in there to talk to someone and they're just a person. Alright, I'm afraid that my cynicism will ruin great opportunities for me.
Paul: Debra says "I'm afraid that the only reason I'm staying with my husband is because I'm too scared and lazy to raise my kids alone."
Tom: Oh God.
Paul: That doesn't touch anything in you. No trigger there.
Tom: That ruins me. I'm afraid that I smell really bad and everyone's too polite to tell me.
Paul: I have that one too. Debra says "I'm afraid of someone sneaking unseen into my garage as the garage door is going down after I pull in." That's like a horror movie, that one.
Tom: Oh, I thought she meant like she's afraid the garage door is gonna crush them.
Paul: No, like they're gonna sneak in and then attack her as she's trapped in her garage.
Tom: Oh God. I'm constantly afraid that I'll be not robbed but just murdered for no reason in the middle of the night. Yeah. But I feel like that's a common thing, kind of. I'm afraid that I'll be stuck working at a job that I'm indifferent towards.
Paul: Debra says "I'm afraid my oldest daughter is starting to pull away from me little by little as she becomes closer to her friends."
Tom: There's another one.
Paul: You can't relate to that at all.
Tom: Oh not at all. I'm afraid I'll never be able to quit smoking.
Paul: Debra says "I'm afraid I'll come back from vacation with bed bugs." Ooh, I have that one.
Tom: I had bed bugs for three months last year, and I think it is the worst thing that can happen to a person, because every day is a disaster and you don't want to go home and if you tell people you have them, their reaction is like--
Paul: Get the fuck away from me?
Tom: I think it's like how people would have reacted if you told someone you had AIDS in the early '80s. Just they're afraid if you touch them they'll have bed bugs all over them. I'm amazed that came up.
Paul: Your turn or my turn?
Tom: I think it's mine. I'm afraid if I have children I won't love them.
Paul: Debra says "I'm afraid the rabbi at my temple, whom I love and have been trying to befriend, has kept her distance because she thinks I'm not Jewish enough."
Tom: I feel like if you have that fear, you're Jewish enough. I'm afraid that people pity me.
Paul: I have that one too. "I'm afraid that my kids will grow apart from each other as adults and will have no relationship, as happened with me and my brother."
Tom: I'm afraid that my dad and my sister find me disappointing, like I'm not living up to my potential.
Paul: Debra says "I'm afraid of the emptiness that awaits me when my kids have grown up."
Tom: Oh, God.
Paul: Debra, I want to give you a big hug and encourage you to go to therapy.
Tom: I know, I want to just wrap my arms around this woman and hold her for like 20 minutes. I'm afraid that my looks will fade faster than I'm able to handle.
Paul: Trust me, it's not fun.
Tom: No, I know.
Paul: Debra says "I'm afraid my marriage has no real foundation."
Tom: I'm afraid that when I die no one outside of my family will care. I guess that's also a fear that I won't leave any mark when I'm gone, that I will just have been ineffectual.
Paul: I think that's a really common fear.
Tom: Oh, it's gotta be. But--
Paul: I would care.
Tom: That's nice. And I am kind of immortalized in this now.
Paul: Yeah.
Tom: Wow, that just made me feel a lot better.
Paul: Debra says "I have a fear of talking about my feelings." Please overcome that fear, Debra.
Tom: People like when you do it.
Paul: They do.
Tom: And if they don't like when you do it then they're not people you want to associate with anyway.
Paul: Exactly.
Tom: I'm afraid that all my teeth will fall out one morning.
Paul: That's it?
Tom: Just 'cause I haven't been to the dentist in three or four years and I'm worried that one day karmically all of my teeth are just going to fall out at once.
Paul: Have you seen the movie The Fly, with Jeff Goldblum?
Tom: I have, that's how I felt when my hair was falling out from stress. I felt like the next thing that's gonna come off is gonna be an ear or something.
Paul: When his teeth start falling out in that movie I felt that in my bones, that was so gross. I'm gonna do Debra's last fear, which I love. And by the way it was just coincidence that I picked Debra's fears to do. There is always this weird synchronicity with the fear and love lists, how sometimes they just feel like they were meant to be together. She says "I'm afraid that my two-year-old is going to start saying 'Go fuck yourself' due to all the Mental Illness Happy Hour podcasts I've been listening to in the car."
Tom: I did that once when I was a kid.
Paul: Said "Go fuck yourself"?
Tom: Not word for word but I was driving around with my grandma and I guess someone cut her off and my reaction as a three-year-old was to say 'Fucking asshole!' 'cause I guess that's just what I'd grown up around.
Paul: That's awesome. Should we go to loves?
Tom: We should.
Paul: Debra says "I love getting the right Tupperware lid on the first try." That is a sublimely satisfying thing.
Tom: Oh, it's those small victories. Like when you're in a new person's house and you guess the silverware drawer on the first try.
Paul: Or the garbage.
Tom: Oh, I've never succeeded finding the garbage easily. I love when I make my girlfriend laugh so hard she can't breathe.
Paul: She says "I love when people tell me my children look like me."
Tom: That is nice. I love when I have a nightmare that I'm still in high school and then I wake up and realize that I'm done and I never have to go back.
Paul: That's an awesome one.
Tom: I love that feeling.
Paul: Debra says "I love a heating pad on menstrual cramps."
Tom: I'll take her word for it. I love crying in movies.
Paul: I do too. She says "I love peeling a banana and not finding a single bruise."
Tom: I love when I have a negative expectation of something and then something amazing happens instead.
Paul: Yes. That's a great one.
Tom: I had one the other week that filled me with light for three days straight where I was driving up La Brea and I saw a group of transsexual kids walking up the street. And up the street was this big group of really scary-looking thugged out guys. And it was like a movie, as the transsexual kids got closer the big guys moved out of the way to hug them and they had moved out from in front of a sign that said "LGBT Support Meeting", and I just immediately started crying when I saw it.
Paul: Wow. That's so beautiful.
Tom: It was just that moment of like "Oh, people are good."
Paul: Yeah. There's so many good people in the universe, there's so many. They're everywhere.
Tom: And I can't wait to meet all of them.
Paul: Debra says "I love the magical moment at the end of a cold where your nose finally unplugs and you can suddenly smell things again." I love that one. Not only can you smell them, but you can smell them better than you could like when you're just normal.
Tom: I had the flu recently and that feeling...That and when your ears pop from being clogged from being sick and you can hear again. If I could have that every morning when I wake up, I think all my problems would go away. I love putting on a new pair of socks or underwear.
Paul: That is a good one. Debra says "I love that my daughter can express herself well and articulate her feelings and emotions without any embarrassment or shame." That's nice.
Tom: She's raising her kids right.
Paul: Sounds like it.
Tom: I love when I introduce somebody to something and they love it and I'm able to relive it through their eyes for the first time.
Paul: "I love locking myself out of my house or car and realizing I have a hide-a-key."
Tom: That must be nice.
Paul: I've done that one.
Tom: I've had to break into my apartments many times because I didn't have that. I love discovering a new song and then playing it until I can't fucking stand it anymore.
Paul: Yeah. "I love when the planets align and all my kids are quiet in the car at the same time." I can't imagine how many parents love that one.
Tom: I love getting the answers right on Jeopardy before any of the contestants do, or, if none of them do, and I feel better than them.
Paul: That's a big win for the ego. She says "I love the sound of a football game on in the background."
Tom: I love having arguments and righting wrongs that were done to me in the shower at the end of the day.
Paul: "I love being woken up in the morning by my one-year-old gently rubbing my back and stroking my hair." Oh, that's beautiful.
Tom: That's sweet. That's like a Norman Rockwell painting.
Paul: Yeah. Let me finish: "--before I turn around and smack her face."
Tom: I love feeding ducks.
Paul: There is something nice about feeding ducks. I think part of it is that they trust you, and they move in close to you.
Tom: Yeah, you feel like a king. They love it.
Paul: Oh, I love this one. "I love paying for the person's coffee behind me in the Starbucks drive-thru." What a beautiful gesture.
Tom: What an amazing human being to actually do that. Okay, this one's oddly specific. I love going out on my balcony and eating my lunch out there and watching people walk below me, it makes me feel like a king.
Paul: "I love going out of town for a few days and then coming home to a DVR full of my favorite shows that I missed." Are we out of loves?
Tom: I can make up a few, absolutely. I'm out of pre-written ones. I love when I'm in a record store and I find a record I want at full price, and then right behind it there's a used one for a lot less.
Paul: Debra says "I love the fact that I've never said one negative thing about myself in front of my daughters." That's good.
Tom: That's really good. I love when a book is able to make me cry, which is rare.
Paul: Have you seen the movie Life of Pi?
Tom: No, I haven't.
Paul: There was a moment in there when I just started fucking bawling. And halfway through that movie I was like 'I don't know if I like this movie,' and then...Yeah.
Tom: I find myself crying in movies that probably shouldn't be cried in, but any sort of sentiment will get me immediately.
Paul: Debra says "I love playing spider solitaire in bed in the dark, before I go to sleep, because it never fails to knock me out better than any sleeping pill ever could." And that's her last love.
Tom: I think my last love would have to be I love that I'm not as afraid anymore.
Paul: Thanks, Tom, I appreciate it.
Tom: Thank you for having me.
Paul: Many thanks to Tom, and as I mentioned we did this about eight or so months ago, and I emailed him yesterday and asked him how he was doing, and this is the email I got back from him: "Paul, so great to hear from you. As for how I'm holding up, I couldn't be better. Between therapy, having a family brought closer together by this, and just living one day at a time in the present, I feel pretty good, which is nothing to shake a stick at. As for the toxicology report, it was deemed an intentional overdose, which we had all assumed, but there's that. I'm happy to say that yes, I'm still doing standup, and that's easily the best thing I've ever done with my short life. It truly does feel like it's what I was put here to do, it's just the greatest. The amount of amazing people and incredibly fun experiences I've had just starting out these past nine months is astounding. To update the listeners, I'm still pretty much the same person from eight or so months ago, the young, sober new comic trying to learn how to be a good person and make his life the best he can, the only difference being when we recorded it was at one of the lowest points in my life and now, aside from the anxiety and depression engrained in my DNA, I'm the happiest I've ever been. I should have ended on that but yes, I'll send you a half-decent picture of myself for the website later today, and as for a page to link to, I guess my Twitter account, as gross as it feels to plug that--it's @thomothy. Great hearing from you, Paul, hope we get to talk again soon." Thank you, Tom. His episode really touched me.
Before we get into the surveys I want to remind you guys there's a couple of different ways to support the show, if you feel so inclined. You can support us financially by going to the website mentalpod.com and making either a one-time PayPal donation or my favorite a monthly recurring donation, and I have to take a moment out to thank you guys that are monthly donors, and people who have donated, I was able to go plunk a little bit of mentalpod money down for a $300/month office space, so that I can record without my dogs barking in the background. And I got a little emotional when I walked it, it's a dinky little office in a ratty little building in kind of a seedy part of the Valley, but it just felt like it was an extension of this community that we're building together and it's your guys' money that is renting that little $300/month place, but I'm looking forward to putting some lights and microphones and stuff in there and I just want to thank you, because your support means a lot to me. You can also support us financially by shopping at Amazon through our search portal, it's on the home page on the right side about halfway down. Amazon gives us a couple of nickels and it doesn't cost you anything. You can support us non-financially by going to iTunes and giving us a good rating, that boosts our ranking, brings more people to the show, and I'm gonna brag for a second, I suppose I'm also high-fiving you guys, but we've had almost 2000 people rate the show, you can rate it up to five stars, and 1800 of the 1900 ratings are five stars. I just shake my head in amazement when I look at that, and it's like this show is really striking a chord with people, and I never in a million years imagined that when I started doing this that it would resonate, as much as I hate that word, with people. Who knew admitting that you're a jackass could be so freeing and so critically rewarding.
Alright, let's get into the surveys. This is from the Shame and Secrets survey, filled out by a guy who calls himself Cormack, and I just want to read this one thing he writes. Deepest, darkest thoughts? "I wish that I would get seriously injured or that someone in my family would die, just so I could talk to someone." That kind of breaks my heart and just makes me think, Cormack, I so get that because I used to have that feeling 'cause I didn't know how to ask for help and I think I had to see my imminent death to scare me enough to say to another person 'Help me, I can't do this on my own anymore.' And so I encourage you to not wait until something gives you the opportunity to do that. Find someone that you feel safe with, even if it's a physician. That's my thought. And here's another one that's basically the same thing. This is from a woman that calls herself Eddie. Deepest, darkest thoughts? "I think about hurting myself or attempting suicide but not succeeding. I don't want to die, I just want my friends and family members to know I'm in pain." Please, you guys, please go talk to somebody. It's so much less scary than you think it is. I think a lot of us think it's gonna be scary because our template is often family members or parents or authority figures who have let us down, but there are so many people that won't let you down, especially therapists and support groups.
This is from the Shame and Secrets survey, and I'm just reading a little section of this, this is from I Did Bake Naked, gotta love that name, and she is in her 20s, and she writes--Deepest, darkest thoughts?--"I want to have a food from every category of the junk food pyramid on my kitchen table. I want to eat all of it, then I want to watch TV, not be able to move because I'm in so much pain from overeating, and then fall asleep. I'll wake up and be able to visually see how bloated I am in my face. This is a fantasy of mine. I've admitted a fraction of this to most of my close family friends and so on, no one can relate to the small fraction i tell them. How can I admit the real truth, then?" And she adds "I'm not overweight", which kind of makes me hate her on a certain level, unless she's just thinking about the food and not eating it, but fuck, I wish I could go back and be that 14-year-old kid that could have three chocolate shakes. Then again, I was also living with my mom. Scratch that.
This is from the Shame and Secrets survey, filled out by a woman who calls herself Probably Diseased. Deepest, darkest secrets? "I think I was raped by my ex-boyfriend." And then fast-forwarding in the survey, Do these secrets and thoughts generate any particular feelings towards yourself? "I feel ashamed of myself because I let that incident happen to myself and I didn't listen to my mom, who would absolutely hate me if she knew that I was abused or caught an STD. I probably would kill myself if I told her and she disowned me. She is really all that I have right now and I feel so alone." Wow, it really sounds like she is not there for you. It sounds like she is a real fucking narcissist who can only accept you when you fit into her model of what she thinks her child should be. She really sounds like she's treating you like an object or something, but she doesn't sound like she has a lot of empathy. She sounds like she's really got a lot of fucking issues and I encourage you to find someone that's safe to open up to, 'cause your mom does not sound safe.
This is from the same survey, filled out by Laura, and her deepest, darkest thought: "I want to be an unproductive member of society. I want to lay in my bed listening to music other people created, relishing in the fact that I am a breathing potato." I would actually enjoy trying some breathing potato fries. I wonder if they're like sweet potato fries? "I want someone to fuck me so hard that it hurts, to just take control and do it. Just press me up against a wall and give it to me. I don't want to die, I just want to go away. I yearn to be nothing, to not be a person. I already don't feel like one, so why should I keep trying so hard to be something I'm not? I don't see a point in doing anything, there's no meaning, no purpose, no driving force behind anything. I just hate everything and everyone. I want to get into a car accident so people will feel bad for me and I can lie in a hospital bed and not do anything. I hate my mom so much, I wish she was dead. I hate myself because I've never had a traumatic event happen to me and I feel like I shouldn't feel this way unless I have." Sexual fantasy most powerful? "The sexual fantasy that I think about night and night again is giving up all control, not necessarily a violent or abusive one, I just want someone to tell me what to do, not give a shit what I want, just do what they want and do it hard. Like if they want me to suck their dick, I want them to make me. Or just fuck me hard and from behind so I have no power. I do nothing. They do whatever they want. I want them to take advantage of me with the most confidence someone could possibly have." Have you ever considered telling a partner or close friend? "No, because that would mean I gave myself some kind of control, like I told them to do it. I just want someone to do it without me saying anything. Telling them defeats the purpose. I feel like I'm a lonely bitch that just wants to get fucked and that's it. I don't give a fuck about emotions and I don't feel like a person because of that." You know, another possibility is that you feel things really deeply and they're so painful that you want to numb yourself, and you do numb yourself, but that breaks my heart to hear how harshly you talk about yourself. And I just have to say, about the fantasy thing, that might be a little bit of a catch-22, wanting somebody to take control like that without you saying anything, waiting for them to do that. I don't know, that just sounds like...I don't' know. I should just shut up because I wonder if I comment on these too much, but I'm sending you a big hug, Laura.
This is filled out by a guy who calls himself Creep, and his deepest, darkest secret--he's 24--and he writes "Exhibitionism. I enjoy seeing if I can get away with not being caught or noticed masturbating or spying or showing my genitalia in a public area. In layman's terms, I am the creepy guy in the row behind you on the bus whose eyes can be felt on you, peeking over your seat to catch a glimpse of your cleavage. I suppose I'm a curious boy trapped in a man's body. I feel I should include the fact that I'm a virgin and have never been close to a woman, well, that knew I was there. I know, super creepy. My bread and butter is staying over at friends' houses and sneaking into where the girls are sleeping and trying to pull down the covers a bit, putting my penis close to their bodies/mouth/hands." Fantasies most powerful to you? "I've already said all I could, they are not fantasies, they are reality." His deepest, darkest thoughts were "To subdue a woman with chloroform or some oral anesthetic just so she is passed out and I can have my way with her in order to save her from feeling pain or fear." And I don't believe he's doing that, though. Do these secrets and thoughts generate any particular feelings towards yourself? He writes "Yes. At least I'm not a complete sociopath, I have remorse. However, I take comfort in the fact that my disease is not being contracted by my victims because they are unaware of my deviance. The cycle will end with me." Well, I have to say you don't know whether or not they're aware of it. I've read so many surveys of women waking up to something being done to them but then they have that freeze thing that happens, which many people have, men and women, and they pretend as if they're asleep because they don't know how to confront the situation, so you will probably, if you continue doing this, traumatize somebody. And I don't want you to think that you're a monster but something's going on with you that you need to talk to somebody about. And if you can't go there for yourself, go there for that potential person that you're eventually gonna wind up hurting and traumatizing. So, I'm sending you a big hug, Creep, and also giving you a little push on the back to get to a therapist, get to a support group, get somewhere out of your own head because that sounds like an addiction, and addictions don't go away without intensive work and support.
This is from the same survey, filled out by Alice. And she writes, about her sexual fantasies "They always really are about the guy fucking me, touching me, kissing me until I am ecstatic beyond satisfied, nothing to do with his satisfaction or what he likes, just me getting my fill of pleasure without no responsibility or owing anyone anything." Would you ever consider telling a partner or close friend? "I've been able to communicate openly with my husband to a certain extent. He is very supportive, loving, and giving and loves to please me. He wants to make me happy and goes to great lengths to fulfill me and is a really beautiful and amazing person." Do these secrets and thoughts generate any particular feelings towards yourself? "Yes. I think I am a monster and a sex fiend. I think what I want is beyond the realm of what a human being can give or should be expected to give. I feel ashamed of my lust for sex. I do not want just any sex, though, not many people turn me on, and I just want my monogamous relationship to be voracious and ecstatic." Oh my God, it is, Alice! Of all the surveys I've ever read, it sounds like you and your husband are two perfect pieces of a puzzle sexually that just snap into place, and you're beating yourself up about it. You're not a monster and a sex fiend. You have a healthy sexual appetite and you enjoy being ravished and your husband enjoys ravishing you. I'm so uncomfortable I used the word "ravished". Give in to it. Celebrate it. I hope that as you're listening to this you are having an orgasm and he is giving it to you and you are not considering his feelings at all. Now that sounded like a put-down but it wasn't. Ugh, I'm going into a worm hole.
This is from the same survey--but I just had to read that one because it's like I read so many of these things where these people have so much work ahead of them to get to a place where they can have the kind of intimacy and connectedness that it sounds like you have. Same survey, filled out by a guy who calls himself Young and Sad. He writes "When I was 16 I had to stop my father from killing himself. I consider myself straight and have no emotional connection to men but I am sometimes sexually attracted to them. I've attempted to have sex with a man once and I didn't like it at all. I often post ads on Craigslist looking for anonymous sex even though I have a girlfriend that I love very much. I hurt so, so much every time I do this, even though I've never acted on any of these urges. I have a small penis and I feel that I'm not good enough for my girlfriend, which is probably why I end up looking to strangers for intimacy. I fear she may have found out about the mistakes I made and I have no idea what I would do if she were to leave me. I despise myself for what I have done to her, but I know if I told her there would be no saving things between us." The environment he was raised in, he writes "My father always had anger issues. He would be verbally abusive and could switch back and forth between being the nicest man you've ever met and a monster consumed by his anger." Sexual fantasies most powerful to you? "I often want to relinquish control and have someone else do whatever they'd like to me. I believe this stems from the fact that I'm ashamed of my body and genitalia and have trouble making sexual advances with anyone. I thought I would be a bottom in a homosexual sense but found no enjoyment or attraction in it once I tried it. It stopped almost immediately." Would you ever consider telling a partner or close friend? "I don't know. I often feel pressured and scared when I attempt to have sex with my girlfriend now, even though I desperately want to. I'm terrified that if I open up to someone and tell them all my sexual quirks and fantasies, they will see me completely differently or that they will see me as a disgusting and dirty person." You're not a disgusting and dirty person. And it's clear from the environment that you were raised in, it was invalidating and scary and you never knew where you stood with a verbally abusive person who would lure you in with niceness and then punish you with rage. Do these secrets and thoughts generate any particular thoughts and feelings towards yourself? "I absolutely hate myself. I go to the gym constantly because I feel inadequate as a man due to the size of my genitalia. I consider myself generally attractive but I doubt that any woman would stay with me for a long period of time because of my shortcomings. I've struggled with depression since I was 16 and I started having anxiety attacks this past year, usually ending in me vomiting. I feel as though I will end up alone because I am awkward in social situations and my head is so fucked-up. If I were someone else I would never associate with me. I've been smoking marijuana heavily for the past two years to deal with my depression and anxiety and I've been caught by my parents four times. Even though I don't believe I'm harming myself, I feel extremely guilty about smoking even though continue to do it anyway. Thus, I'm a terrible boyfriend, son, and person in general." Wow, it sounds like your dad, or somebody else, has buried such terrible core messages in your head, 'cause you sound like a really sweet guy whose sexuality doesn't fit clearly into a box, like most of us, and I just want to send you a hug and encourage you to find a place that's safe. You know, my support group, all of them, are just the safest places in the world. I've been to support groups that don't feel safe and I leave them and I find a different meeting of that support group. And I encourage you to have a place in your life that's safe. Maybe it's a therapist's office, maybe it's coffee with a friend who gets you, but find someplace where you can be yourself because there's nothing wrong with you.
This is from the Shame and Secrets, filled out by…he doesn’t give himself a name. He puts “BPD2, PTSD due to molestation by my mother and work with survivors of torture.” Deepest, darkest thoughts , “My mother was sexual with me from the time I was very young, six years old, touching, kissing inappropriately, getting into bed and touching in inappropriate ways. The touching stopped when I was 16 but then she continued to harass me with the details of her sexual life with dad and boyfriend. Yes, two different people.” Deepest, darkest secrets—oh, and he’s gay and in his 40s—“I’m afraid that I will hurt myself in ways I will not be able to heal. I’m afraid that my fantasies of being raped will put me in a dangerous situation. I’m afraid that I cannot make a connection with people, even my long-term partner.” Sexual fantasies most powerful, “Rape fantasies where I’m raped by a man.” Would you ever consider telling a partner? “No, I don’t think I want to engage in this fantasy.” Do these secrets and thoughts generate any particular feelings? “Yes, I feel enraged at myself, at my mother, at everyone.” BPD2, usually when I hear BPD I believe it’s usually referring to Borderline Personality Disorder, but BPD2 makes me think that he’s saying Bi-Polar 2, ‘cause I’m not aware of a 1 or 2 classification of Borderline Personality Disorder. If I remember correctly, it’s actually being taken out of the DSM. Anyway, I digress. He also goes on to say “I had to seek professional help after I left the city where I had friends and work to follow my partner to a new city. When I was alone with no work, no friends, and in a strange place, I realized I couldn’t handle my feelings alone anymore. I was in so much pain physically. I couldn’t understand what was wrong. I wanted to go to an emergency room and tell them my stomach is on fire with anger. My muscles ache with intense sadness. My head is exploding with happiness, sadness, rage, sexual desire all at the same time. I couldn’t sleep for days, maybe weeks. I felt my body was going to fail or I was going to do something to stop the pain. In therapy I was surprised to find out other people experience their emotions physically like I do and did. I thought I was crazy. It was a revelation to me that other people experience the world like this. I have embraced my BPD2 diagnosis. It makes me feel like I can work towards being healthier, and with therapy and medication I feel functional again. It’s taken a while. Thanks for your podcast.” Well, feeling the feelings really intensely sounds like Borderline Personality, but Bi-Polar, the mania part sounds kind of like Borderline Personality. I guess it doesn’t matter what the diagnosis is, the fucking guy’s getting help. Shut up, Paul. Good for you…I’m not going to repeat his long name.
This is from the Happy Moments survey, filled out by David. And he writes “One of the happiest moments I can recall was in high school, in English. We were assigned a project for the Great Gatsby. There were a few options for it, and I chose to shoot a scene from the book in a four -or five- minute short. I grabbed a few of my friends and we spent the next few days in my living room shooting one of the emotional climaxes of the book. None of us acted well, and I couldn’t remember half my fucking lines, but it was probably the most fun I’ve ever had. Just five teenagers sitting around cracking jokes, goofing off, and having fun with the school project. I just felt connected to my friends in a way I rarely had before. There’s nothing better than making something with other funny and creative people, even if it’s just mangling a few pages of dialog from classic literature.” I love that. Thank you for sharing that, David.
This is from the Shame and Secrets survey, filled out by a woman who calls herself Saz. She is straight, 19, was raised in a pretty dysfunctional environment, was the victim of sexual abuse—some stuff happened but she doesn’t know if it counts as sexual abuse. But she doesn’t specify. What are your deepest, darkest thoughts? Not things you would act on but things you are ashamed to admit you think about. She writes “Incest with my 10-year-old sister, incest with my dad, thoughts about raping disabled and mentally handicapped people etc.” Deepest, darkest secrets? “Masturbated, and while testing different thoughts, thoughts of incest with my younger sister, some of my best friends, etc., bring me to orgasm.” Sexual fantasies most powerful to you? “Incestuous fantasies, raping my younger sister, being raped by my own father, raping disabled people, having sex with the school chaplain.” Would you ever share this with anybody? “No, fear of being thought of as sick and wrong.” Do these secrets and thoughts generate any particular feelings? “Yes, shame, disgust, self-loathing, as if something is wrong with me.” I say it all the time on the podcast, it’s not our thoughts that matter, it’s our actions, and none of us have any control over what brings us to orgasm, or what makes us come, what turns us on. There, that's the phrase I was looking for.
Same survey, filled out by a woman who calls herself Fran Fran. I believe she filled out another one of our surveys in a previous show, and I just want to read an excerpt. Deepest, darkest secrets, "I have cut myself since high school and am now about to graduate from college and have been in therapy getting help for it. I'm to the point where I can pretty openly talk about cutting to my therapist but I have the hardest time admitting that I might have an eating disorder. I exercise at least three hours a day, sometimes up to six hours a day. I restrict calories and I sometimes make myself throw up if I feel like I've eaten too much, but I feel stupid admitting these things in therapy or to anyone because I don't think I am skinny enough to really have an eating disorder. In my mind, it is not that serious because I'm not extremely thin. It is exhausting to keep it up, though, and I am just exhausted from trying to keep living like this." It is not the results that makes you an anorexic, it is the relationship to the food, the relationship to your body, that is the issue. I am an alcoholic, I didn't drink during the day, I never got a DUI, but I'm absolutely an alcoholic and I didn't think I was until I couldn't stop drinking, and I would have eventually been drinking during the day and I would eventually have gotten DUIs and probably seriously hurt myself or someone else. Don't wait to become 65 pounds to admit that you have an eating disorder. From the stuff you've listed here, that sounds to me like an eating disorder, only you can really admit to yourself whether or not you're an addict, an anorexic or bulimic, but please share that with your therapist. That's like a heroin addict saying "Well, I'm not a heroin addict because my arms are still pretty clean." And then another example that's unnecessary.
This is filled out from Christopher, Shame and Secrets survey, he is straight, in his 30s. About his sexuality he calls himself a "non-practicing nymphomaniac". He was raised in an environment that was a little dysfunctional, "My dad was/is an alcoholic and used to fight with my mom every night, constant tension in my house caused me to sleepwalk. Every month my parents would tell my brothers and I that they were going to get a divorce, they never did, but I did find out that they were cheating with each other's best friends because I walked in on them between ages 12-16." God, that's gotta be painful and confusing. Ever been the victim of sexual abuse? "Some stuff happened but I don't know if it counts as sexual abuse. I was fondled around ages five to seven a lot by a single mother who had daughters around my age." Yeah, that's sexual abuse. There's no ifs, ands, or buts. "There was a lot of men who came in and out of that house, and when I think back perhaps those girls were being abused, because all they wanted to do when I went over there was to play make out or have sex. At such a young age I know that kids explore but these experiences were almost pornographic." Deepest, darkest thoughts, "I want to have sex with pubescent girls, I find them attractive. Those thoughts of mine disgust me. Also, I'd like to rape a woman who has rejected me sexually. I'm kind of fucked-up. Even though I have these thoughts I believe I'd never act on them. If I did, I'd go mentally insane and kill myself. I think sometimes about burning down my house and watching it go up in flames." Deepest, darkest secrets, "I've masturbated at every job I've had, not in public view. My friend and I are both straight males, but I gave him a blow job. It didn't bring me any pleasure or disgust, it was just something I did, this happened over 10 years ago and I can still feel it in my mouth." Sexual fantasies most powerful to you? "I covered it in my deepest, darkest secret portion. My current fantasy is to have sex. It's been several years since I've been intimate or even held, so I'm going for the basics here, however, in college, I did have a best friend who decided she wanted to be gay. We were lovers without the contact. My fantasy would be that she would have chosen me to be her first to see if she was truly gay. Instead, she chose some chump who helped her confirm she was gay. She was my love, I should have been her test subject." Well you know what, if you had been, you would have gone 'I was the one that turned her gay. I was the one that confirmed her.' So I don't think, playing that over in your mind, you're gonna come out with any kind of victory. The brain has a genius way of kicking the shit out of us in any situation. Would you ever consider telling a partner or close friend your fantasies? "I would never tell anyone my fantasies, maybe my psychotherapist, but my brothers already keep their distance from me and call me a pedophiliac because one day I whistled at a high school girl that walked by my house, so I have to hide my identity like Batman. The general public want people like me dead. My thoughts disgust me at times. I think if I had a proper adult relationship I'd forget about teens and rape. I think I'm fucked in the head. I'm seeing a shrink and have been diagnosed as bi-polar, major anxiety, and Borderline Personality Disorder and I'm a binge drinker, so there's a lot going on in my head. It's a zoo in here." Well, I'm sending you a big hug, and I think the first thing to address would be the binge drinking because that lowers your inhibitions, and if you've got another issue that you're struggling with keeping in check, or you're worried about keeping in check...Sending you some love.
This is from Zoe, Shame and Secrets survey, she’s in her 30s. Deepest, darkest thoughts, “I think about running away, although I would never seriously do it. I’m 30+, how embarrassing to even contemplate that.” Do you have any idea, Zoe, how many people say that in that question? Either wanting to die or wanting to run away, that’s the most common thought that people have, and then stuff to do with fucking or being fucked. Deepest, darkest secrets, “I feel like I lack empathy, or at least that my empathy pales in comparison to the depth of empathy that others possess, and I fear I learned that trait from my mom, who completely lacked empathy for me. I feel like I am a poor partner, friend, and relative as a result. I don’t work as hard as I should to be there for others and my social anxieties certainly don’t help the matter, either.” You know, Zoe, I don’t know you, but your mother sounds like a bit of a narcissist and from what I’ve been reading this last year, listen to the episode before this one about co-narcissism, and I think you’ll hear your story in there and I can tell you that people that lack empathy don’t think about lacking empathy. They just don’t. It doesn’t register on their radar. People that worry about lacking empathy are generally extremely empathetic people, who actually suffer from feeling too much for other people, and then that becomes an issue and they ignore their own needs. And a lot of times that’s pounded into their heads because they had a projecting parent who told the child that they were the one who was selfish. Talking about yourself, Paul? Maybe a little. Yeah, my mom did that all the time. I was spoiled and rotten, and selfish, and a martyr, and all these things that I came to discover when I described my mother’s behavior to my therapists. They’re like “That’s what she was!” Which is not to say that I don’t have my fucking issues and I can’t be a douche, but…
This is from the Shame and Secrets survey, filled out by a woman who calls herself Rain, she’s straight, in her 30s, was raised in a totally chaotic environment, and deepest, darkest thoughts are “that I’m a disgusting human being.” Oh, and she was a victim of sexual abuse and never reported it, and I have to say that the people that check that off, were the victims and never reported it, usually wind up having the most amount of mental and emotional conflict inside themselves. “I was sexually abused repeatedly from ages 9 through 12. These memories only surfaced three years ago. I am in my 30s. I feel deeply responsible for all of it—,” Oh, that breaks my heart, “basically that I should not have let any of it happen.” Even if you instigated it as a child or a young teen, it is not your fault. It is up to the adult to say that’s not appropriate. “The first time at nine, the man in his 50s took me to his bedroom and had me touch him, and then he had intercourse with me. I remember thinking if his wife gets home and catches me with her husband, she will be very mad at me. My older brother did lots and lots of stuff with me, from touching to sex. He also offered me up to one of his friends, who I let have sex with me. I was 10 to 12. One of my most shameful things I remember is thinking that my brother’s friend was not as good at sex as my brother was. I have nothing but disgust for myself. At 12 I remember thinking I was pregnant and I did not know if it was my brother’s baby or his friend’s. Thank God I was not pregnant. It saddens me that I had to deal with that on my own. I never told anybody about any of this abuse. There was no one in my life I felt safe enough to tell.” Oh, Rain, I wonder if it’s fitting that the name you choose is the moniker of the Rape and Incest National Network, because if you’re not aware of that, immediately go to rainn.org and get some free counseling. Anybody out there who’s been sexually abused as an adult or child. And then she says “This is disgusting, my fantasies are disgusting, I hate myself, I have lots of things to be ashamed of in my life.” You have nothing to be ashamed of. And she said that she’s had an eating disorder for 25 years. Well, who would be able to accept their body when stuff like that is done to it? Because that’s the first place we go, that’s the first thing we blame. I was at war with my body, still am in many ways, still hate many parts of my body, and it’s so much related to trauma and blaming ourselves.
This is from Shame and Secrets, filled out by a guys who calls himself fatcreepyguy, and I just want to read a portion of it. He writes “This is pretty horrible and it'll haunt me forever and it is VERY disgusting but true. When I was 18 (and a virgin, no hope of EVER getting laid) I was working in a restaurant and had an "American Pie" incident with a large roast beef. Nuff said. I was so unbelievably horny and that was a foul, horrible, EVIL, truly depraved thing to do. It is sickening just recalling this. I've never told anyone about this. I was so desperate for sex at that time. I wouldn't have even thought of doing that if not for the chef who had me and another cook stick our fingers in it to feel how pussy-like it was. I have more, but I've got to stop. That is the darkest thing I've done.” If that is the darkest thing you’ve done, God bless you. That is so much more comedic than it is dark, that is such a teenage thing to do and you’re being so hard on yourself. Sexual fantasies most powerful to you? “I enjoy wearing panties and bikinis....Feeling the softness and knowing there was a beautiful pussy rubbing against them once.” That’s awesome. I love this guy. I think you should open up a beach apparel/butcher shop, and guys can come in with their girlfriends and everybody can leave happy. And I’m not making light of you. I wish you were here so I could give you a big hug and tell you to lighten up.
This is filled out by Anastasia, and she writes “I have recurring fantasies of my mother taking her own life, as she has threatened to do this all through my upbringing, only now since I've broken off all contact with her after 25 years of abuse her threats have become more frequent and, it appears, more serious. Her friends contact me on a regular basis blaming me for her suffering, and my mother posts Facebook status updates about what a horrible daughter she has. At this point, almost all of my deepest darkest thoughts circle around her killing herself and how GOOD it would feel to finally be done with all of it. To finally be free.” Deepest, darkest secrets, “I was molested by my mother's boyfriend when I was five, but I don't remember much of it, and my mother has never wanted to discuss it even though she caught us together in her bed.” She continues, and she was sexually violated when she was older at eighteen, and she writes “I never reported any of it because I know the way the system works, and I've been brought up feeling such immense guilt about everything from my mother that somehow I figure all of this really was my own fault. My mother even told me so just before I cut off communication with her, that was actually the last straw for me. Now if she kills herself it will be all my fault for shutting her out of my life - she lets me know this through her friends. So I guess when that happens, my deepest darkest secret will be that I killed my own mother.” Oh my God, you are not responsible for anybody else, and guess what? When you went to her, when she caught her boyfriend in bed with you at five, and she wouldn’t allow that to be discussed, she cut off communication with you. Fuck her. Fuck her. I hope this episode doesn’t sound like I’m picking on moms, because there’s a shitload of really bad moms in this one, I’m not. That’s just how this one happened to kind of unfold.
Shame and Secrets survey, just want to read one excerpt, this is from PokemonMaster, and she says “have a desire to take a scalpel and pull it down from the shoulder to my wrist and peel off the skin (note, I've never self harmed other than once when I drew a triforce on my arm with a knife out of boredom).” And her sexual fantasies, “Most of the time I fixate on scenes from TV shows or movies, hetero or gay (either girl on girl OR guy on guy). If I try to picture people I know, generally I can only picture their face but not the actual act. I feel frustrated that I can't picture myself in the scene properly.” Thank you for sharing that, PokemonMaster.
This is an excerpt from Shame and Secrets, filled out by Mr. Fisty, and he writes, deepest, darkest thoughts, “Mostly self harm, or harming others. I like to hope for harm on myself to get out of situations. I also hope for major horrible events to occur such as bombings or shootings to happen and to make me feel out of control of a situation. I also imagine how people will kill me when I first meet them. I also imagine killing people I don't like/ venerable people such as children and the elderly.” Sounds maybe like it’s a little bit like unwanted thoughts. Deepest, darkest secrets, “I lie about situations for no real reason. I've lied about drug addictions and rape on several accounts and have also lied about having mental disorders and severe physical acts of violence/self harm.” Sending you some love.
This is filled out by Greg, and I wanted to read this one, too, because I felt it was a little similar to the previous one. He writes, deepest, darkest, secrets, “I am a liar. About everything, my ancestors social status and history, my own relationships history, my health, everything. I have bipolar disorder, I am mostly manic, my depressions don't last more than a week or two but I sometimes overplay them to get antidepressants to get me manic. I also sometimes think that I don't have bipolar and that I’m just a Munchausen case. I’ve only been with prostitutes and never sober. I told three girls that I like them and none of them believed me, I ended up stalking one of them for 2-3 years only when hypomanic. Probably it happened because i don't know how to communicate my feelings since I don't even grasp them. When I was 14-15 I had my first hypomanic episodes, I spent them alone with a telescope and bottles of whisky, the bottles from my grandmothers bar were vanishing and when my parents started asking questions I made them think that my granny has Alzheimer's. I love being manic a bit too much, I would change any personal relationship with a manic episode, and that's what I’m doing actually. The silly thing is that I don't know why I am that screwed up, my brother, a year younger turned up to be the epitome of normality and I ... an ex genius child prodigy alcohol pill popper who lives between his ears and every time he gives it a try to get out of there realizes how incompetent he is. And imagine that I’ve been in therapy all through my late teens and since I’ve been diagnosed two years ago. All in all what I only care about is to burn my plethora of high functioning brain cells through manic episodes and alcohol.” You know, if you really do have an alcohol problem, I encourage you to try to get in touch with your emotions, because the one thing I see that keeps more “smart” people from getting sober is their refusal to leave the intellectual plane and get in touch with their body and their feelings, and to get in touch with their spirit, because the spirit is the thing that drags us down, that makes us want to keep getting fucked up. And we think we can jump start it with our intellect, but we can’t. So, I hope that makes sense.
This is from the Shouldn’t Feel This Way survey, filled out by BiBimbop, which is a drink, I found out. She filled something out a little while ago. And she writes, what would you like people to say about you at your funeral? “Of course let's just say right now -- she was brilliant. An original thinker, philanthropist, and generous and non-judgmental spirit, she was really concerned with the bigger picture. Years before her fame, and in turn, fortune, were realized, she established herself, and her views, as layperson, a commoner, and she operated from this position until the end.” That’s so awesome. How does writing that make you feel? “Awesome. I would fucking love that. Having just started on my masters degree in creative writing, I will still hold that in my mind as a possibility.” If you had a time machine, how would you use it? “Go back to early childhood, one to six, and really see how my mother acted towards me.” Boy, this is the bad mother episode. “I'm supposed to feel pity for my mother who has gradually declined in health over the past couple decades because of her anorexia and related health disorders. She was in the hospital and almost died - she had her colon removed and now has a bag - she is really pathetic, but, she is a mean-spirited and abusive, evil person. Of course I'm supposed to feel sorry for her. But I don't. Honestly, even from a Christian point of view - she deserves it. Dragging a five year old around the house by her hair is NOT ok.” How does writing that make you feel? “Like I’m justified in thinking my mom is a total, evil bitch.” Do you think you’re abnormal for feeling what you do? “No.” Would knowing other people feel the same way make you feel better? “Maybe.” Thank you for sharing that. And you know, who knows whether or not your mom is evil, but what she did is fucking evil.
Shouldn’t Feel This Way, filled out by dizzybirdy55. She is in her 20s, and “I'm supposed to feel guilty about cutting off my father from my life, but I don't. I feel guilty that my sister can't. It feels like a relief. I don't think I'm abnormal, I rationally know but I emotionally feel that I just must be irreparably broken." Would knowing other people feel the same way make you feel better about yourself? "No. I want to be special." That's awesome. And I feel the same way about my mom, is that I don't feel guilty about cutting her off but I do feel guilty that then my brother bears the brunt of dealing with her.
I love this one from the Shouldn't Feel This Way survey, about how would you use a time machine. This was filled out by a guy called BeardFace, and he said "I would watch an empire rise and fall." I fucking love that, that is awesome. What a patient guy.
This is from the Shouldn't Feel This Way survey, filled out by Lex, and she writes " I'm supposed to feel happy about my mother's progress and sobriety, but I don't. I feel angry because I'm the only one who knows she isn't." You know, that doesn't sound like she's progressing and sober, and I don't think there's anything wrong with that. She also writes "I'm supposed to feel angry toward my boyfriend for his emotional abuse, but I don't. I feel forgiving." And she's wondering why she puts up with her boyfriend's shit. I think sometimes when you wonder why you're having trouble with a relationship, a lot of times if you look at a relationship with one of your caregivers, that usually answers the question. It's been my experience that until you divorce the parent that is not respecting you, it's hard for you to become comfortable with respect in a relationship.
This one's a little dark, this is filled out by Erin Undone, and she's in her 30s, was raised in a totally chaotic environment, "Hell on earth", she writes. She's straight, was the victim of sexual abuse and reported it, thank God. Deepest, darkest thoughts, " My daughter is a product of incest between myself and my father. I lied about who the supposed father was and a DNA test recently confirmed that she and I share the same father. As she gets older I see him in her and there are times when I want to claw my eyes out to get away from "him" or scream at my daughter to leave me alone when I find myself so triggered. My mother and sister committed suicide within a week of each other almost eight years ago and I have never fully recovered from that. I have a nagging feeling that I can't help but be next but I know I can't do that because of my daughter and husband who love me." This is very dark, I apologize if this is too dark of an episode, but, you know, I'm not going to apologize. I read what I read because it strikes something in me. Deepest, darkest secrets, " No one but my therapist knows the truth about my daughter's bio-father. I was abused by my father and his friends from the time I was in diapers. They took pictures of what they did to me and those pictures still exist. I cannot get rid of them and I am so ashamed of that. My mother hated me and took part in the abuse as well. My relationship with my father continued into my 20s and I feel like a whore and that I should have known better. I am ashamed to say that I still love my parents or at least the idea of them." Sexual fantasies most powerful to you? " All of my fantasies involve my father. He is dead now and it's the only way I still feel a sick connection to him. It's hard to be specific because there are so many." Would you ever consider telling a partner or close friend? "No. It would devastate my husband to know what I think about when I'm with him sexually. I hate myself. My skin is too tight and I no longer feel like I'm made for this world. I've been in a hole for so long, I don't know how else to think of myself." Whatever the biggest hug is, Erin, I'm sending it to you. You are a fucking survivor and I have had incestuous thoughts about my mother, and I don't feel guilty about them anymore. That's our way of going back and taking control, and that's hard to admit, but the more of us that talk about it, the less shameful it will feel, and I hope we get to a point one day where people will look at the thoughts in our head and the feelings in our bodies and it will be no different than somebody having a cold or something else. That's my hope, so you're not alone.
Alright, let's fucking spice it up a little bit. Let's get something a little happy to end on. This is from the Happy Moments survey, and this was filled out by a guy that calls himself Maxxcor/Marcus, and he writes " Not too long after I was finally diagnosed with DID (Dissociative Identity Disorder) came the Christmas holiday. I decided that it would be a good time to reach out to the alters, that we call "The Boyz". My sister was in town so I asked her to help me find gifts for each of them. With 8 alters to buy for we had to limit it to one gift each. It wasn't difficult - they let me know what they wanted. It was interesting that the things they wanted at each age were the things they didn't receive when "I" was that age. The first one that made me laugh was when my 13 year old wanted the old game "Pong". The challenge was trying to figure out how to get "Pong" 25 years later! I did find something that had "Pong" on it. The 16 year old, Jarred, wanted the black leather coat he didn't get. Instead we had received a tan leather jacket that was soooo wrong for a 16 year old. With a little luck, my sister and I found that right coat. So I now had all these gifts. Much to my surprise, my husband volunteered to wrap them! He was a bit skittish around the who DID thing. Who could blame him! So, the Thursday after Christmas at my regular therapy appointment, my therapist helped me bring each one forward and give them their gift. Each of them unwrapped their gift on the floor and then we moved on to the next one. It was so wonderful! When we were done, we just stayed quiet for a minute with all of us present. I had never felt love like that - ever. For just a few moments we were all together, for the first time. It was so beautiful, so magical and so powerfully strong a feeling of love that I was speechless for many hours after. That was one of the, if not the, happiest moments in my life." Thank you for that, Marcus. And it occurred to me today that in my recovering from addiction and depression and all the battles I've been through, the cheapest, most widely available anti-anxiety thing that I reach for is meaning and purpose in my life, and unfortunately it comes in a really plain wrapper and I often forget that, but when I do connect to other people and feel that sense of meaning and purpose in my life, it always makes me feel like everything's gonna be okay, so I encourage you guys to get some of that in your life. It helps, it really does. And I hope you know that you're not alone, and thanks for listening.
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