Brenda Colonna

08/17/2012 In Podcast Episodes By Paul Gilmartin

Brenda Colonna

The standup comedian and Long Island native opens up about her struggle to live with various mental illnesses, especially PTSD caused by childhood and adolescent sexual abuse. She and Paul discuss having compassion for oneself and how to learn to trust after being abused as a child. They also discuss social anorexia as a byproduct of depression.

Episode is no longer available.

Episode notes:

Visit Brenda's website. And check out some comedy videos of her.

Episode Transcript:

Paul: Welcome to episode 74, with my guest, Brenda Colonna. I’m Paul Gilmartin, this is the Mental Illness Happy Hour, an hour of honesty about all the battles in our heads, from medically diagnosed conditions, to everyday compulsive negative thinking. This show is not meant to sabstitute for – sabstitute? – substitute for professional – oh, sweet Jesus, I should start over. Forge ahead! Forge ahead! This show is not meant to be a substitute for professional mental counseling. It’s not a doctor’s office. It’s more like a waiting room that hopefully doesn’t suck.

The web site for the show is mentalpod.com. That’s also the Twitter name you can follow me at. Lots of good stuff on the web site. There are, I just added a couple of new surveys, so now there are six different surveys you can take, about shame and secrets, older females with younger males, your happiest moments, vacation arguments, all kinds of stuff. So go check that out. You can also sign up for the newsletter there. You can support the show. There’s a blog you can read. There’s a forum. So please go avail yourself of that. That made me sound smart.

I’m going to kick it off with an email I got from a guy named Nick, who wrote, “I think I’m straight, but I have a weird tr***y porn addiction, and it ruined my relationship with my ex-girlfriend. And I feel sick at my stomach thinking I’m in the middle of straight and gay, because I can’t pick a side. Is that wrong?”

And I wrote him back, “Nick, I don’t think it’s wrong at all. Most people’s sexuality doesn’t fit into neatly defined boxes. There are plenty of loving, accepting partners out there who are ready to love and accept someone whose sexuality doesn’t fit into a neatly defined box. Celebrate your sexuality. Life is too short to feel shame about things we have no control over, like what turns us on. As long as nobody is being hurt or tricked, any turn-on is fair game in my book. Let go of the shame, and embrace who you are. That’s my two cents. Big hug towards you, Nick.”

I know that some of the most intense shame we feel as human beings is our shame about our sexuality. Because I think everybody’s got something that makes them a little uncomfortable about themselves. And, you know, I would be interested to know if it ruined your relationship with your girlfriend because it was taking away from your relationship with her, or because she didn’t like what you were turned onto. I think there is a big difference there. If you were devoting all your energy to porn, then I think she’d have a valid complaint. But that’s what’s cool about finding a partner that is open-minded and accepting, is that then you can invite that stuff into your relationship, and celebrate it together. And have that celebration culminate in a jizz-bomb. [laughs]

I fucking love having my own show. Goddamnit, it is sweet. It is so nice being able to say whatever the fuck you want. Fuck fuck fuckity fuck fuck!

This email is from Courtney, who was listening to the – first of all, she related to my addiction to the video game Civilization. And, thank you for that, because it’s always nice to know that there’s somebody else out there that has played for 14 hours in a row, holding their urine. She wrote that, “in the episode with your former co-host Lisa Arch, you said that you thought people who put aside career success for family were heroes. I started crying, because I am really struggling with this right now. I’m an academic, a historian, and also a parent to two wonderful kids. Because of the time and energy I devote to them, I feel my colleagues passing me by. However, I refuse to work myself to death and ignore my family to be considered ‘successful’ in career by a bunch of people that ultimately want me to fail so that they can be ahead of me. Nobody sits on their death bed and in their last breath gasps, ‘I only wish I would have worked more.’ Yes, I have goals that I struggle with because I’m not doing enough, (one of your favourite phrases, I know,) and I feel like people expect more of me. It was good to hear that someone respected people like me, rather than thought of us as failures.”

I’m so glad you feel that way, Courtney. And I wish more people would. On one of the surveys I have on the web site, is, I believe it’s the one called ‘I Shouldn’t Feel This Way’, and one of the questions is, “If you could get in a time machine, what would you go back and do?” And almost every single one of them is, somebody wants to go back and see themselves as children, or to see their parents, to find out what went wrong. Not a single person mentioned going back and working harder, and making more money. It was all about missing out on relationships, and so I think you’re right on the money, Courtney. And anybody out there that is debating on which side to err on, spending more time with your family, or working harder, I’ve just, I’ve never heard of anybody having to go to therapy because they didn’t have enough toys when they were kids. It’s always about one of their parents didn’t pay attention to them. That’s my two cents.

And one last thing before we get to the conversation with Brenda Colonna. As I said, there’s a question on one of the surveys about the time machine. And I printed out a bunch of them. And they’re just so awesome, how different what people would do if they could go back in a time machine, or forward. And one of the parameters in the question is that you can’t change history, you can only observe it. And so I just want to read a couple to you.

“I would go back to 1968, to when my parents met. I am dying to know what my father was like at that time that made him so attractive to my mother. They were such opposites. I never understood why she loved him.”

Another one: “I would go back and observe the childhood I do not remember. And even though you say I can’t change history, I would beg the little girl I was to change it herself. No one ever told her it could all be different. She deserved better.”

Another person says, “I would observe the Buddha, and his path to enlightenment.”

Somebody else said, “I’d revisit the good sex I’ve had, to refresh my memory for masturbatory purposes.”

 

[intro]

 

Paul: I’m here with Brenda Colonna, who I met through Jimmy Pardo. I guess it would have been about, maybe about six months ago.

 

Brenda: Has it been that long?

 

Paul: I think it’s been about that long. And I apologize, I know we were supposed to get together earlier to record, and I had to push it back. But, we struck up a conversation as we were waiting to go do something, and I was like, oh, I think she’ll be a good guest.

 

Brenda: Immediately about mental illness, huh.

 

Paul: Yeah. Well, you were very open right out of the gate. As most performers are, I think. Some aren’t, but I think most are. And, so I’m interested to hear your story.

 

Brenda: My story. Where do we start? I was born.

 

[both laugh]

 

Paul: Where do you think would be a good place – what, first of all, what might people know you from? Just, doing stand-up around the, LA, around the country…?

 

Brenda: I would say around LA. I started in LA. I’ve been doing it almost five years now. I’m just starting to kind of reach into middle America, and then up northern part of the United States. But –

 

Paul: That’s known as the soul-crushing tour.

 

Brenda: Yeah. Isn’t it all? Isn’t it all soul-crushing?

 

Paul: [laughs]

 

Brenda: Yeah, I mean, I don’t know, I was on a couple TV shows. But I was in and out, you know, just little parts. And nobody, nobody knows me.

 

Paul: Well, it’s the least important part of this show.

 

Brenda: Oh, good!

 

Paul: [laughs]

 

Brenda: That makes me feel so much better!

 

Paul: Where were you raised?

 

Brenda: I was raised on Long Island, in an embarrassing town called Ronkonkoma. And I –

 

Paul: It’s not hard, with that name.

 

Brenda: What, to be embarrassing?

 

Paul: Ronkonkoma.

 

Brenda: I know. It sounds like an SUV, right?

 

Paul: It really does.

 

Brenda: I know. It’s, I don’t, you know, whenever somebody meets me and they go, “Where are you from?” and I say, “Long Island,” they go, “Oh where?” And I go, “Ooh, do you know Long Island?” And then we kind of, like, creep in from county to town, and then I’m like, “Ugh, I’m from Ronkonkoma.” And they’re like, “Ooh, yeah.” So…

 

Paul: It sounds like a pebble that would come out when you orgasm and also have a kidney stone.

 

Brenda: That’s creepy. I don’t know. [laughs] I don’t even understand those two things together, but… it’s gross. It just sounds like something you’d catch on a one-night stand.

 

Paul: Yeah.

 

Brenda: So I’m from there. And then – I don’t go back every often. It makes me feel bad. I think a lot of traumatic stuff happened there. So I – and I’m a runner. And so I think that I don’t like to go back home, or I don’t even really like to talk about it. I get, look at me, I’m getting hot already. In my own house.

 

Paul: Really?

 

Brenda: Oh, yeah.

 

Paul: Well, this is good.

 

Brenda: Yeah. This is a very, this is why I was excited about doing this podcast. It’s very vulnerable, it’s very honest. And those are two things that I really enjoy from other people, and I enjoy being. Although I’m very scared of, but I like to jump into it a lot. But that, where I’m from is a soft subject. I haven’t figured out why, or – not a soft subject.

 

Paul: What’s embarrassing about Ronkonkoma? Am I pronouncing it correctly?

 

Brenda: Uh, yeah. See, I hear it and it hurts. I already [laughs] What’s embarrassing? I don’t know. I’m not sure. I’m not sure what it is that makes me so –

 

Paul: Well, let’s talk about the events that happened in Ronkonkoma. Maybe that would help to find what’s, gives you a knot in the pit of your stomach, talking about it. Or, am I putting words in your mouth?

 

Brenda: No, that’s, that’s pretty accurate. Um…

 

Paul: Did you live there your whole childhood?

 

Brenda: I lived there my whole childhood.

 

Paul: Where on Long Island is it?

 

Brenda: Um, here’s what it is – it’s far east – here’s what it is: it’s such a stereotype. And a stereotype that I can’t –

 

Paul: Isn’t that the expensive part?

 

Brenda: No. You know what, Long Island is really weird, because there’ll be an expensive part, then a little pocket that has nothing. There’s like, toothless people.

 

Paul: Where the help lives.

 

Brenda: Yeah. [laughs] Pretty much. And so –

 

Paul: Because isn’t, aren’t the Hamptons the furthest east part of –

 

Brenda: Oh, yeah, no we’re not that far east. We’re probably like, an hour and a half away from New York. And then I think like two hours. So like a half hour away from the Hamptons, maybe 45 – I don’t remember. To be honest, I mover out when I was 17. Like, the minute I could get out, I went, you know. I think there’s a big – Alright, it’s part of my, one of my fears on my list was that I don’t want people to think I’m stupid. And when, there’s a lot of ignorance in people’s perspective there. And I never felt like I fit in. And I never could understand how you could think, I don’t know, just so one-sided, and so maliciously. Not that everybody there is malicious, because that’s unfair to say, but you know, just, in perspectives. And I just never felt like I fit in. I just always wanted to get out. And so I still have – I suffer from post-traumatic stress. And so that feeling of wanting to get out and run, whenever I hear, when someone asks me where I’m from, and they hear ‘Ronkonkoma,’ I get that post-traumatic stress feeling where I just, I don’t want to talk about it. I get like, kind of all clamped up. My stomach kind of knots. And it’s that feeling of just wanting to run, and that feeling of people being ignorant, and not understanding, and not feeling like I fit in, and –

 

Paul: Was it that it was kind of a typical blue-collar machismo, little bit of racism, thing? Or what was it, what was the vibe about it?

 

Brenda: That is the vibe, and, which I didn’t enjoy. But funny enough, that I reek of, you know.

 

Paul: You don’t reek of that. Not to me.

 

Brenda: Oh, really? I feel like I do.

 

Paul: Not at all.

 

Brenda: Ah, what a compliment! Thank you. I feel like that, you know, when people see me that’s what they see. I feel like they see this blue-collar, um, I don’t know. Maybe I, yeah, that whole thing, I feel like maybe ignorant, a little racist. I enjoy a little racism, though. [laughs]

 

Paul: With your eggs in the morning.

 

Brenda: Yeah.

 

Paul: I think all comics enjoy doing a racist joke, because we know that we don’t mean it. And as comedians, what makes us laugh, we’re so used to hearing everything, that it’s the stuff you’re not supposed to say, the stuff that’s over the line, that we say to make each other laugh. But we would never, like I would never share that kind of a joke with somebody who I thought was genuinely racist. Because that would be, make me sick.

 

Brenda: Well, yeah.

 

Paul: Because I would think they know that I’m, they don’t know that I’m kidding.

 

Brenda: Yeah, I think it’s about hurt.

 

Paul: Yeah.

 

Brenda: You don’t want to, when you’re doing that with somebody who is racist, then you two are hurting somebody together.

 

Paul: Right.

 

Brenda: And that’s not what our intent is. But if something is funny, it’s funny, racist or not. I mean, I can’t, I can’t deny it. Even if it’s offensive, like any kind of crossing the line type of humour. If it’s funny, and you know –

 

Paul: Yeah.

 

Brenda: – and it’s true –

 

Paul: Yeah. I mean, I –

 

Brenda: – you’re going to laugh at it.

 

Paul: – I’m Irish, and I’m a drunk. And I am lazy. It’s like, I, there are some stereotypes that are true.

 

Brenda: You know what? I’m Italian, and I love sauce and meatballs.

 

Paul: [laughs]

 

Brenda: I really do. And I know, and that feels like a stereotype, and it hurts my soul. But it’s true, I love Italian food. I went to Italy and ate Italian food for three weeks, and came home, and ate Italian food. That’s Italian.

 

Paul: That is Italian.

 

Brenda: That’s very happy to say, ‘That’s Italian.’ [laughs]

 

Paul: That’s Eye-talian. So what, where would be the best place to start, about the disease of Ronkonkoma?

 

Brenda: I don’t understand that question.

 

Paul: I was just going back to our thing saying it sounded like an STD.

 

Brenda: Oh… Yeah, I still don’t understand.

 

Paul: When did you catch Ronkonkoma?

 

Brenda: Oh [laughs] I don’t know. Early. Wow, let’s move on from that, and go back.

 

Paul: Where do you want to go back to?

 

Brenda: Uh –

 

Paul: Hold the mike a little closer to your mouth, if you will.

 

Brenda: Ok. We’ll go back to Ronkonkoma after. Let me get warmed up.

 

Paul: Ok.

 

Brenda: That’s a soft spot.

 

Paul: What do you want to talk about?

 

Brenda: I want to do my list.

 

Paul: You want to do your fear list?

 

Brenda: Yeah.

 

Paul: Ok. We can do it. Um… Remind me to, I want to talk about whatever it was that gave you the PTSD. Because I don’t want to forget that.

 

Brenda: Alright.

 

Paul: Whenever you want to talk about that would be great. Got your fear list?

 

Brenda: Yeah. This is heavy. Paul.

 

Paul: Well, I’m used to it, so, it doesn’t feel –

 

Brenda: This is intense!

 

Paul: It doesn’t feel heavy to me, but guests, often as soon as we stop recording are, will be like, “What have I done? Oh my god, what have I done?” And I always tell them that means it’s going to be a good episode. Because, if you’re totally comfortable after we’re done, then I feel like we didn’t dig deep enough. But there’s also usually a catharsis that people feel, too, after they’re done. I always feel good after, when I’m doing it, and when I’m done. But sometimes I do feel like, oh, why did I say that? Oh, for Christ’s sake, that’s out there, now, that you know, it’s… but that’s the kind of shit that kills us, those things that we can’t voice, or we’re afraid to voice. That’s my take on it.

[pause – Brenda whispering?]

You want to start over? Why?

 

Brenda: *sigh* Is that, is that no?

 

[both laugh]

 

Brenda: Alright, alright.

 

Paul: Why do you want to start over?

 

Brenda: Because I want to do it differently. I want to come in – because when I had first listened to it, I listened to a couple episodes, and it was like, ok, it’s this fear list, I could do that. And then it’s like, ok, this love list, I could do that. But I didn’t think that I was going to come in and answer questions that were that emotionally deep. And so, and we got deep to quickly –

 

Paul: Yeah.

 

Brenda: – and so now I feel like, ok now that I know what I’m going into, I can answer. You know, I could… I could… –

 

Paul: This is –

 

Brenda: – give you a better response!

 

Paul: This is how I felt after I did What the Fuck? with Mark Marin. I was so praying he was never going to air my episode. Because I was all, and I hated how I came off on it. I thought I came across as, um, I thought he came across as disinterested. I thought that I revealed too much stuff. I mean, I was just, and then so he and I talked about it, and he was like, “Well, then let’s have this be a part of the show. Let’s have this phone call, you know, be a part of the show.” And it was, and I had to go with it. But it kind of almost made me sick of what people were going to think.

 

Brenda: Ok. This is what we’re going to do. I’m going to go balls to the wall, and be completely honest.

 

Paul: Good.

 

Brenda: We’re going to start over, not technically, but –

 

Paul: Ok.

 

Brenda: – from, with me and you.

 

Paul: Ok.

 

Brenda: And I’m going to answer everything that you ask me, completely honest.

 

Paul: Good. This is awesome.

 

Brenda: Yeah. But, and it’s going to hurt me. But I’m going to do it –

 

Paul: Ok.

 

Brenda: – just for the sake of having such a bad, like, intro.

 

Paul: Yeah. It wasn’t a bad intro.

 

Brenda: Oh, really? I feel terrible about it.

 

Paul: No.

 

Brenda: Alright.

 

Paul: This is all good.

 

Brenda: Is it?

 

Paul: This is all good. I am –

 

Brenda: Oh my god! It feels horrible! [laughs]

 

Paul: That’s why it’s good.

 

Brenda: I’ve had better therapy sessions. Like, therapy sessions that more intense but felt better. This feels like, so real. And the fact that like, people are going to listen, and then go, “Oh, man, she’s fucked up.”

 

Paul: But that makes them feel less alone.

 

Brenda: That’s true.

 

Paul: There’s so many people that feel the way we do.

 

Brenda: Ok. Alright, you ready?

 

Paul: Yeah.

 

Brenda: Get started. I’ll answer all of it with complete honesty.

 

Paul: Ok.

 

Brenda: And being completely vulnerable.

 

Paul: Ok. What was it about, what is it about Ronkonkoma that is so painful to…

 

Brenda: Ok, so I, um… ok, I’m going to do it. I was molested. Um, when I was eight. And so, and I hid it. And I didn’t tell anybody for a really long time. I didn’t even actually realize it, the nature of what really happened until I was an adult. Until I was like, 16. Not even an adult. Um, and so –

 

Paul: Are you comfortable saying who it was?

[pause]

Was it a relative?

 

Brenda: I committed to this. It was somebody at, I went to dancing school, and it was somebody who taught at the dancing school. Who’s gay now, I believe. And so, I guess he was practicing. Or testing out his –

 

Paul: How old was he?

 

Brenda: 18? I was eight. Or maybe 16, and I was eight. I mean, either way, an eight-year-old shouldn’t be getting touched like that.

 

Paul: No.

 

Brenda: You know, and he like did this weird manipulating thing where he convinced me that he was my boyfriend. And, which gave me like a slew of trust issues later on, and still to this day. I have such a hard time trusting people. Anyway, so that’s what happened in Ronkonkoma. And which is why I get kind of –

 

Paul: How many times did it happen?

 

Brenda: I don’t know. It was regular. It was, I mean, I don’t know, I went to dancing school twice a week. And so it happened twice a week for… I can’t remember. You know what, I look back, when I was – I didn’t understand the severity of it when I was eight. And then, looking back I only see pictures. Of certain incidents. That kind of flash. And feelings. So I couldn’t tell you, like, the scope of time.

 

Paul: What are the feelings?

 

Brenda: It’s confusing, because sometimes it feels, it felt good. When you’re eight years old, and you’re feeling somebody touch you, in a way, you know, not understanding that it’s bad, it feels good. And then that gets confusing, because you’re like, why, you know, that was bad and it felt good. So, and that fucks up your idea about sex as an adult, you know. And so – sorry, I got sidetracked.

 

Paul: I’m glad you said that, by the way. That’s one of the things we talk about a lot on this podcast, is the guilt that you feel because your body’s responding one way, and your brain at that point doesn’t know. You, you’re so happy for the attention. You feel special. And you realize later, you were tricked. And that’s such a painful, painful truth to face, is that you were used. And you were tricked. And… the little voice in your head tells you, “But you enjoyed it. You’re a pervert.”

 

Brenda: I don’t ever feel like I’m a pervert. I feel like I was, like definitely misled. I agree with you, I guess, I was misled. I was told one thing, and something else happened. The one thing that people say to me, that, I don’t really know how I feel, but it’s said to me often: “Well, yours wasn’t as bad as somebody who got raped.” Or, “Yours wasn’t –“

 

Paul: Who says that? People say that to you?

 

Brenda: Oh, yeah, all the time. Well, not all the time. I don’t go around telling people this. But –

 

Paul: Are they trying to make you feel better?

 

Brenda: Maybe.

 

Paul: Because that’s a horrible thing to tell somebody. Because it’s, in my opinion, it’s not the act, it’s the feelings that result from the act that fuck us up.

 

Brenda: Right.

 

Paul: And being tricked and harmed is being tricked and harmed. And… yes, on a certain level, somebody who is, you know, anally raped every day by their father, you know, who punches them in the back of the head or whatever the fuck is the worst thing you can think of. Yes, on a certain level, it’s bad. But that doesn’t mean that you being molested isn’t valid.

 

Brenda: Yeah, no, I agree with you 100%. However, I understand, it is valid. It’s always valid. Because you’ve got, you know, you hurt somebody. Emotionally. Physically. Mentally. I mean, and then, and even as a child, when you don’t understand the difference between right or wrong, like, it’s a hard thing to overcome. I mean, I still try to overcome, I froze in the beginning of the web s-, uh, what is this again? Podcast. Because I didn’t know how, then, to react. That was a PTSD move, what happened with me. Because, and I didn’t even realize it, thank you, until right now, that when people ask me where I’m from, that’s what, I’m getting triggered. That’s what’s triggering me.

 

Paul: Wow.

 

Brenda: Is that feeling. And so I don’t want to talk about. I go, “Oh, don’t ask me.” A lot of time I kind of skate over it, and just say New York, and still people –

 

Paul: Is it that you’re afraid that you’re going to handle it in a way that is not appropriate, you’re going to make too big a deal of it, or you’re going to misrepresent what happened? Or –

 

Brenda: No, complete physical reaction. I have no idea what’s going on. I think that’s from stuffing it your whole life. I’m not sure. But, that is just, I’m figuring this out right now, as I’m talking to you. But that’s the feeling that I got. And then when I decided I was going to be vulnerable, it was, ok, let me tell him what, why I got that way. I feel like I had no choice, to be honest.

But, going back to what those people said, or what sometimes people say to me, about you know, whose is worse. You know, like, it would have been worse if it was your dad having sex with you rather than some kid that was, you know, figuring out who he was on you. And, I think there’s probably a gradiant, a scale of, you know, how – we can curse on here, right?

 

Paul: Yeah.

 

Brenda: – how fucked up somebody gets. Like, yeah, if that was my dad having sex with me, I’m sure my trust issues would be even worse. I’m sure I would have, you know, a more unhealthy marriage. You know, I’m sure all of that stuff then would be greater. But it doesn’t take away what happened to me. Because I still have those problems. I still, you know, like a lot of my friends say, “Well, you know, you don’t have a day job, and you get to do stand-up. And, you know, your life is really great. And you shouldn’t have any problems.” And, but that doesn’t mean that my problems aren’t real. It doesn’t mean when I get up in the morning, it doesn’t hurt. It doesn’t mean that – you know, sometimes I can’t get out of bed, and you know, it’d be great if I didn’t have all of that. But I do. And… I don’t know, I don’t think one person’s problems are any less or more than another person’s.

 

Paul: Right. And we don’t know, also, what makes it difficult to get out of bed. That’ that part that is so fucked up about having depression, you know. We don’t know exactly what it is that contributes to that not wanting to face the day. But I don’t think that should ever stop us from pursuing all the avenues of trying to deal with that pain. You know, like, I’m hesitant to ever say, well, I’m depressed, because, you know, my mother blah blah blah blah. My dad didn’t pay attention to me. Blah blah blah blah blah. I want to own the stuff that happened to me, talk about it honestly. But trying to make the connection between what happened to me, and why I am the way I am, it can be my hobby, but it shouldn’t be something that I have to know ‘a caused b’ for me to deal with it and have empathy and compassion for myself. Because then you get, that negative part in your brain is going to always pick it apart, and go, “No, you’re exaggerating.” So, then your depression really is just you being lazy. Does that make sense?

 

Brenda: Yeah.

 

Paul: It’s like, if we try to treat this like a logical, linear thing, the – human brains are so fucking complicated, the only thing I know is to just deal with the feeling that I’m feeling right now. And talk about it. Get it out there, and stop trying to play, waiting for an answer to give myself compassion.

 

Brenda: Hmm. You know, it’s interesting. The thing about this, and what makes depression, and any kind of mental illness, is hard, is that everybody’s illness is different. And it’s like, I could listen to you, and I could say, “Oh I agree with that,” or, “I disagree with that,” or “I relate to that,” or “I don’t relate to that,” because I come with a different make-up. A different culturally, the place I’ve been, how I was raised, and so it’s so hard to, everybody’s journey is their own, I guess.

You know, and it’s so hard to even help another person, because you don’t know what it’s like to live inside their head. You don’t how they, you know, come up with thoughts, or you know, see things through. And it’s just, I don’t know, it’s a hard thing to fix, or even try to help anybody, or try to learn for yourself. It’s almost like a day-to-day. It’s like every morning you’re waking up with new eyes, and you go, ok, how am I going to deal with this? How am I going to deal with this today? How am I going to be able to cope with this? How am I going to be able to make up an affirmation that’s going to help me feel like a better person today? And it’s always new, you know?

 

Paul: Mm hmm.

 

Brenda: And so, as I listen to you, I relate and then I don’t, and then I go uhh,uhh. You know, it’s confusing, and it’s very hard.

 

Paul: That’s the part to me that exacerbates depression, is because it’s so confusing. And one of the hallmarks of depression is difficulty making decisions. So a lot of times, sitting, trying to figure out whether or not you’re, this is your depression or you being lazy, it’s like you’re going into the enemy territory to try to get an answer from the enemy. It’s just, it just makes you want to bang your head against a wall. You know, it…

 

Brenda: Mm hmm.

 

Paul: One of the things that I’ve started, a survey that I have on the web site is “Your Struggle in a Sentence.” So people can try to understand what it feels like, whatever your struggle is. And one of the things I wrote about depression is, is it feels like you’re dead inside, and the place where the words reside for you describe the depression is inside that dead place. And it’s so, it’s like trying to describe a grey cloud, but you can’t use the word ‘grey’ or ‘cloud.’

 

Brenda: Hmm.

 

Paul: And it’s just, it’s aggravating. It’s exhausting.

 

Brenda: I understand that.

 

Paul: It’s exhausting.

 

Brenda: My definition, I think, for depression would be –

 

Paul: And by the way, I’m glad the leaf-blower who follows me from episode to episode was able to make it on time, here.

 

Brenda: [laughs] Good, good. I set that up. I thought you would like that.

 

Paul: Yeah. I appreciate that.

 

Brenda: Um, that’s funny. What was – oh, I would think that my definition of depression would be really heavy extremities. I just feel like my body gets heavy. And there is no way to make it light. And then that becomes frustrating. I just, I can’t, and it’s debilitating. Like, I can’t, I was so depressed – I should also say, I was diagnosed with bipolar, PTSD, depression, and then I would say body image issues, but I think every girl, for the most part, you’re lucky if you’re a girl and you don’t have body –

 

Paul: The pretty ones don’t have that.

 

Brenda: What?

 

Paul: I’m kidding.

 

Brenda: What do you mean? [laughs] Oh, wow, if you could have saw my face! [laughs] I was like, are you saying I’m ugly? What? Um, oh that’s funny.

But yeah, so those are, that’s my diagnosis. Like, and if I wrote down a sentence for being bipolar, I would say, the lows feel like you’re sliding down a winding, very slippery slide, that’s easy to go down. But it’s a slide of negative thoughts. And it’s like you step on the slide with your first negative thought, and then you just keep going. But then, as you’re going down, you just keep saying these negative things that are spiraling you into this depression that’s at the bottom, that now you’re so heavy, and you can’t get out. Because like, literally, I like feel, my body feels heavy, like my arms feel heavy, my head feels heavy. So heavy that I don’t have th energy to go take a shower, or I couldn’t leave my house, because I was on a bipolar low. Three days ago, when you came and I said, three days ago I couldn’t even leave. I had to pay the rent, and I couldn’t, I couldn’t move. I couldn’t get off the couch. It’s just debilitating.

 

Paul: Boy, can I relate to that. It’s the worst. And then you just beat yourself up, because you’re sitting on the couch. And you’re like, “You’re lazy, you’re just feeling sorry for yourself.”

 

Brenda: I love getting sick. Because it justifies that fact that I could lay –

 

Paul: Oh my god, yes!

 

Brenda: – on the couch, for like a week. And you know what I do? And then, like, I justify my existence on Twitter, and I tell everybody that I’m sick, that that’s why I’m not out. And I’m like taking pictures of Nyquil, and I’m doing all, just so like, let people know, “Yeah. I’m still alive, but I’m, you know, I’m sick.” Meanwhile, I’m laying on the couch, watching movie to movie. And, you know, if I wasn’t sick, I’d probably be – like, if it rains. That’s another thing, I love when it rains.

 

Paul: Me, too.

 

Brenda: Because that means I don’t have to go outside. [laughs]

 

Paul: Yeah. And the outsides match my insides. That’s one of the things I like about rain.

 

Brenda: Oh.

 

Paul: It’s grey. It’s drizzly. It’s kind of shut down.

 

Brenda: So, do you feel like that all the time, or does it –?

Paul: No. It’s, I don’t know why it’s there sometimes, and why it’s not there other times.

 

Brenda: Do you have a high?

 

Paul: I do. And sometimes, I’ve had highs that lasted years. But I don’t know, I don’t know if it was like a mania, or if it was my natural self, because it involved me being super obsessed about things.

 

Brenda: Hmmm.

 

Paul: So, it’s probably was a mania, because then it was to the exclusion of being able to really listen to people. It’s like I went through this phase where I was super into woodworking for like, three, four years, and it’s all I thought about. I would be at dinner, and I would be thinking about “I got to get back to the shop and put that –“ you know, “I’m going to do this on that piece of wood, and I’m going to do that,” and while it’s very invigorating, it makes your life very one-dimensional, also. And when the passion for that went away about two years ago, it, nothing really replaced it. So I miss that, that kind of mania. I do have moments where I feel ok, and I feel at peace, and I feel good. But I also have more moments where I just feel, ugh. Just ugh.

 

Brenda: Although, I think the obsession, like the woodworking thing, is really just something that’s gratifying, that is keeping you from thinking those negative thoughts that, you know, slip you into a depression. I mean, I do that with work. I overload myself with projects, because if I’m working then I can’t think about it. And this is like the worst occupation to have, because there’s so much down-time, and you just think about – and there’s so much rejection. And then, you know, I could, like with triggers, like something can trigger me, I have no idea what it’s going to be. I could be in a great mood, and then read a twitter feed, and see what I’m not doing in comparison with what other people are, and that is it. I am on the slide. I am going down, and I can’t –

 

Paul: Like, how many followers you have, –

 

Brenda: Yeah.

 

Paul: – and then, all of a sudden you go, and you see such-and-such has, you know, a million followers, and you’re like, “I’m a piece of shit.”

 

Brenda: Well, I’m like, “How does this idiot have that many followers?” That’s how, that’s [laughs] That’s the way I cope, but that’s me. That’s nice of you, to put that on you. I put it on the other person.

But, so, the upswing. I would say that the bipolar upswing feels like you’re climbing a ladder, which takes so much more effort then it does to go down the stairs. And it’s a shaky ladder, because you don’t trust it. You know, when you start telling yourself those affirmations, you’re like, you don’t know if it’s right or wrong, but you’re just doing it. So it’s like going up this ladder that’s shaking, that you – but you know –

 

Paul: You think that this isn’t a natural positivity, this is just the beginning of a false mania.

 

Brenda: Yeah. I mean, it could, I mean, you don’t know. I mean, who knows. You know, if you go on a ladder that’s shaky, you don’t know if it’s going to fall or not. But you’re just going, because you know that at the top of it is where you want to be. And if you just keep, the only thing you can do is keep going. Because it could break, or it can’t. And so you can’t, sometimes you make it, and sometimes you don’t. Sometimes you’re halfway up the ladder, and you think you’re having a good time, and you’re like, “Oh, I got that. I got life. I understand life.” And it breaks. And you go back down. That’s how I would describe bipolar.

 

Paul: Does mental illness run in your family?

 

Brenda: You know, back to the blue-collar thing, there was no therapy. There was no mental illness. It was, that guy is an asshole. He acts this way, he’s an asshole, and we don’t like him. It wasn’t, you know, he has problems. He has mental illness. Looking back and hearing the stories that my mother has told me about my grandparents, I would say yes. A lot of mental illness, and a lot of drug abuse. But that I think goes hand in hand.

 

Paul: Yeah. The most natural thing is to try to self-medicate yourself instead of going for help. Who wants to say, “Hey! I’m going to a psychiatrist! I can’t handle life by myself.”

 

Brenda: Yeah. Well, that’s also a very blue-collar thing, too, because when you’re working all the time, you kind of don’t have, you don’t have the time, like the way we do, to just sit and think about your problems. But, at the same time they’re not handling it in a productive way. Because of their not addressing their mental illness. But you don’t see that.

 

Paul: Yeah. They don’t even know what’s going on with them. –

 

Brenda: Mm hmm.

 

Paul: – That’s the thing that’s so baffling about mental illness, is it presents itself as just wave after wave of circumstances that are overwhelming. And so you think either you’re inadequate, or other people are fucked.

 

Brenda: Well, here’s the think. I cannot stop blaming. And that’s, like my parents, I cannot stop. I am 30-something years old, and I cannot stop blaming my parents for things that I felt like they should have done, when I was five. And if I had just knew this, I wouldn’t be like this now. And as an adult, as a rational person, today, I understand that that’s not a healthy thing to do.

 

Paul: Right.

 

Brenda: Tomorrow could be a totally different story. They could be the cause of, like, everything that is happening in the world right now. And I can’t –

 

Paul: But you’ll never know for sure what causes. You know, they… kind of the general opinion on mental illness is that there’s a genetic predisposition, and then stresses in life can kind of flip that switch, so that it’s kind of both nature and nurture.

 

Brenda: Mm hmm.

 

Paul: But you don’t know for sure. You don’t know for sure. And the point that I like to come back to is it doesn’t matter what caused it. What’s important is to deal with what you’re feeling. Talk about the possibility that what, you know, we don’t need to blame our parents for what we’re feeling. The important thing is to say, I don’t feel good about this thing that happened with me and my parents, and process that, and talk it out out loud, and take the energy out of it. That’s the important part.

 

Brenda: Yeah, you know, but you know, I just figured out in hearing you explain that, is that the blaming is less intense than the responsibility. It’s just a grade up. I mean, it still feels shitty. But I mean, if, like if taking responsibility is here at the bottom, blaming is just one step up that I don’t have to feel so intense about it. If I like, put it on somebody else, and [unintelligible]. Definitely a coping mechanism, just so that I could get through that day, you know.

 

Paul: I see. Because you’re either going to blame yourself or you’re going to blame them. So if you blame them, at least you can kind of, you know, shut the file on that and move on. Whereas if you’re the one to blame, you’re just still going to be in your head, constantly feeling like, I’ve got to change something. I’ve got…

 

Brenda: Yeah. Or you know, or it’s that, you know, sadness – anger is a little bit easier than sadness.

 

Paul: Yeah.

 

Brenda: And blaming is anger. And responsibility is feeling – well, look at that, I fucked up. I guess that responsibility is feeling sadness. Which is how I see the world, which is not the way the rest of the world does, or a lot of other people who have a more stable perspective. But that’s how I see it. I see responsibility as sadness.

 

Paul: So, what were some other seminal moments or events in your life that you think have shaped, shaped you?

 

Brenda: Um… That’s kind of a heavy one.

 

Paul: Did you, when you realized it was molestation, what, how did you handle that? Did you tell anybody? Did you, would you –

 

Brenda: No, I hid it. I hid it and didn’t realize it until I was like, I had a boyfriend, I don’t know, date rape – I say that in quotes, because I don’t, yeah, I don’t really know how, these things are so like weirdly defined. But I was, you know, dating, forced sex on me when I said, “No.” And it was, you know, traumatic because, you know we were dating for like a year, we were having sex, and you know, when… it’s a whole different thing. Anyway, –

 

Paul: Oh, no, we’re not skipping over that.

 

Brenda: [laughs] Ok. I promised.

 

Paul: Yeah.

 

Brenda: You know, so when you have –

 

Paul: I don’t want to bore you with my date rape story.

 

Brenda: Yeah [laughs] When you have a skewed perception of what healthy sex is, as somebody who was molested, then you engage in a relationship, in like, you know, an early sexual relationship, and sometimes the things that you do aren’t so healthy. Or –

 

Paul: For example… you would have sex with your boyfriend when you didn’t want to.

 

Brenda: No.

 

Paul: What, then.

 

Brenda: I was actually pretty strong. I would do things like, you know, you would experiment. You know, like [laughs] I don’t know how you’re going to take this. I lost my virginity on a kitchen table, too. Doesn’t it sound erotic –

 

Paul: A chef?

 

Brenda: No. But it’s so stupid.

 

 

Paul: If it was a chef, I think it would have been alright.

 

Brenda: [laughs] I wish it was. I wish it was a sous-chef. Because I enjoy going both ways. No, I’m just kidding.

Anyway, so –

 

Paul: You lost your virginity on a kitchen table to your then-boyfriend?

 

Brenda: To a Madonna song. Yeah, to my then-boyfriend. But it was like, you know, that wasn’t like a really nice way. It was like a wild, aggressive, you know, going up the steps, you know…

 

Paul: He was obviously not a virgin.

 

Brenda: No. I think he’d had sex with one person.

 

Paul: Ok.

 

Brenda: I mean, I was 16. But, you know, it’s an unhealthy way to have your first time, is what I’m saying.

 

Paul: Yeah.

 

Brenda: And so, and I think being the last –

 

Paul: Not a lot of tenderness.

 

Brenda: No.

 

Paul: On a kitchen table.

 

Brenda: No [laughs] There’s not. That’s, well, it depends.

 

Paul: On the place setting.

 

Brenda: On the, yeah [laughs] That’s funny.

So, what was I saying? Oh! So then, you know, I, he had forced sex on me, and I was crying. And you know, it was one of those like, lifetime movie things where you roll over, and you’re in fetal position, and you’re crying. And I left, and I broke up with him. And I said, “You can’t do that to me.” And then I realized at that moment, when I was telling a friend what happened?

 

Paul: Yes.

 

Brenda: I realized that I was molested when I was eight. I was like, oh my god, this happened to me before. And then it all made sense. So I, you know, I had never – he told me, the guy who molested me told me he was my boyfriend. And he gave me necklaces, and he took me to like, he took me to restaurants, and would, like, buy me food. And take me through the motions of feeling like I was in a relationship. Way to early. I mean, eight, my niece is eight. And if –

 

Paul: Where were your parents in all this? This is the question I’d like to ask, because I’m just –

 

Brenda: That’s a toughie.

 

Paul: Like, there was a guest I had on the show who was 16, and basically being stalked by a 23-year-old guy. And her parents were like, signing off on this guy.

 

Brenda: Hmm.

 

Paul: And it’s just like, what?

 

Brenda: Yeah. This topic –

 

Paul: Did they know you were hanging out with a 16-year-old guy, or was it always under the guises of he’s tutoring me in dance?

 

Brenda: This is how it went: my mother knew the woman who owned the dancing school and they were friends. My sisters took a class after me. I took a class at like 5:00, and they took a class at like 7:00. And so – this is another soft spot for me. And so my mom would keep me there, and instead of, you know, driving, dropping me off, coming back and picking me up and dropping my sisters off, and then picking them up, she would just do it in two. You know, drop us all off, and then pick us all up. And so I would be –

 

Paul: So you’d hang out for a couple of hours.

 

Brenda: I would be waiting for like two hours doing nothing. And so, and that was the time where – you know I, you know I understand. My mom, now, feels very guilty about this. I feel terrible –

 

Paul: She didn’t know.

 

Brenda: She didn’t know. You know, part of me just feels like it doesn’t matter that she didn’t know. You should of like, how do you not know? And not to mention, she was like down the block, spending time with her mother.

 

Paul: Yeah.

 

Brenda: Which was like, literally five minutes. So in my mind it’s this laziness, that, you know, you just couldn’t pick me up? Like, what, did you think it was ok to leave an eight-year-old sitting at a dancing school? Because clearly, it wasn’t. But at the same time, I can’t be so hard on her, because she didn’t know. And she felt like because she knew the woman who owned the dancing school, that I was safe.

 

Paul: Yeah.

 

Brenda: And so, you know, part of me really feels bad talking about that, because I don’t want to paint my mom in a bad light publicly. I don’t mind doing it on my own. But, you know.

 

Paul: I don’t think you’re painting her in a bad light. I think you’re being honest about what, you’re confliction of feelings. And the going back and forth, which to me is one of the things that, that’s the gasoline that depression runs on, is the bouncing back and forth with the argument in the head of, you’re making too big of a deal, you’re not. And it’s just exhausting.

 

Brenda: Although that happens to me, I got so used to that pattern of thinking, that when I was sick, I was afraid that I was convincing myself that I was sick, so that I could be lazy. Like, I –

 

Paul: Couldn’t even have compassion for yourself when you were actually sick.

 

Brenda: Yeah.

 

Paul: It was just another chance to beat yourself up.

 

Brenda: Yeah, I was like, you know. And I remember then, like blowing my nose and seeing like, the colour green and going, oh, no, I am sick. This is true. I’m not just convincing myself that I am so that I can do, you know, this. And it’s like –

 

Paul: It’s like a gate has to open for you to feel compassion for yourself.

 

Brenda: Yeah. It’s unfortunate. It’s unfortunate that, you know, people that suffer from depression or just any kind of mental illness have to go through that on a daily basis. I mean, the mind games that you play with yourself.

 

Paul: That’s why it’s so important to talk to people, because sometimes you can hear the ridiculousness of your lack of compassion for yourself, and others, when you start talking about it. But when it’s just that ping-pong ball bouncing around your skull, it’s just, you can never see it clearly enough. It’s like it’s in the fog, and just, and you think, ugh, if I just think about it harder I might be able see it more clearly. But it’s –

 

Brenda: I don’t see it clearly now. I mean, I understand the words that you’re using. And you’re saying compassion, but I don’t really. I don’t feel it. I don’t understand. And I know you can understand something and feel it at the same time, but I’m, I don’t, I don’t f-, I don’t really understand what you’re saying. I don’t, I haven’t lived that yet.

 

Paul: I, I didn’t until about three years ago. I got into another support group, and started to learn. Because I felt like I was going to live the rest of my life never knowing true intimacy. And I, it made me sad to think about that, that there was a part of me that was like, blocked off. And so I started going to this other support group. And it really, the support group really focuses on finding compassion for yourself. And it kind of took it to the next level, and I was finally, when I was able to feel compassion for myself, then like this wall came down, and certain truths came into light.

 

Brenda: Hmm.

 

Paul: That I had always just said, no it’s just you. It’s just you. And then it takes it to another level of you being, to then have compassion for yourself for something that you used to blame yourself for. And so it’s kind of this, I don’t know, this great… it’s like that slide you’re talking about, where it’s going down, but instead it’s going up. With it’s own natural momentum.

 

Brenda: Hmm.

 

Paul: But it takes you, for it to happen you have to get super vulnerable around other people who feel just like you do. And that is really scary. But that’s, your initial feedback from them allows you the clarity to see, oh my god, I’m not having any compassion for my – that they were, it’s like they had the flashlight in the dark, leading me to the, compassion for myself. Because I could never have found it on my own. But sitting over dinner with these people, after I had just poured my guts about something, where I didn’t where the truth lay, and they were like, “Can’t you see that this was inappropriate?” That this was… this, that person should have been protecting you? That etc etc etc. That then that gave me the clarity to go, oh my god, I think you’re right! And then I was able to have some compassion for myself. And then you can see, and then all of a sudden you have a little bit more clarity about other things. And so, that’s how, at least for me, that’s how it led to that. But I could have never gotten to that place on my own.

 

Brenda: See, here’s where trust comes in. Because I would, that sounds beautiful. And that, and I’m so happy that you were able to find that. And, but I’m –

 

Paul: It lasted about an hour.

 

Brenda: [laughs] But it just seems, oh man, to be that vulnerable in front of a whole bunch of people that are giving me advice. I don’t know where that’s coming from. I don’t know where that advice’s coming from, I can’t trust them. I don’t know, they could be maniacs –

 

Paul: Why? What do they gain from lying to you?

 

Brenda: I don’t know –

 

Paul: And that’s the thing that –

 

Brenda: It’s a sick, twisted world.

 

Paul: That’s the thing that, while therapy is awesome, there’s also a little part in my head that would always tell me, well they’re being paid. So of course they’re going to tell you these things. But when you’re in a support group, those people don’t have any reason to lie to you.

 

Brenda: Hmm.

 

Paul: They, you, it was my first experience with true, beautiful, unconditional love. And it is fucking amazing when you experience it. But to experience that, you have to go to these support groups. Some nights, the person that gets on your nerves is talking too much, all these other compromises you have to make to get to that place. And if you’re too rigid, or too unwilling to value yourself enough to put up with those things, it’s, you’re going to give up. And it’s the most natural thing in the world to give up on yourself.

 

Brenda: Mm hmm.

 

Paul: But it’s the greatest thing in the world to say, I go though life once. I’m going to throw myself into this. I’m going to lay it all out there. All the secrets I was going to take to the grave. All the things that I’m ashamed about. And crying in front of 50 people [laughs] talking about that, is scary, but then when 15 of those people come up and hug you, and say, “Yes. I know exactly how you feel. This happened to me.” You know. “Two years ago, and then here’s where I am now.” Or somebody that’s like, “Oh my god, I didn’t even realize,” such-and-such, such-and-such. So that’s, sorry for that long-winded flowchart –

 

Brenda: [laughs]

 

Paul: But that, I think it’s so important for people to know that you can get to a place where you have clarity and compassion for yourself. It’s just not going to probably happen with you sitting on the couch, beating yourself up. Thinking about yourself without bouncing stuff off of other people, without opening up. And it’s something I kind of harp on on this podcast, over and over, but I feel like it’s something that can’t be emphasized enough, because it’s the main tunnel out of the darkness.

 

Brenda: You mean the not sitting on the couch, or the support group, and allowing yourself to be vulnerable?

 

Paul: Not sitting by yourself, trying to think your way out of it. Sitting on the couch, watching a movie when you’re sad, I’m all for that. Watching the movie, entertaining yourself. But not sitting there not really watching the movie, and sitting and thinking about, I’m a piece of shit for watching a movie, and spending two hours beating yourself up. That’s not a, that’s not the good thing.

 

Brenda: Oh, the beating yourself up is just so painful. I can’t not beat myself up. Someone doesn’t call me back within two days, I’m beating myself up with like, this person doesn’t like me. What did I do? What did I say? I can’t eve believe I’m this insecure, to be honest.

 

Paul: What are some things about yourself that you like?

 

Brenda: It’s a very small list that I don’t think about very often. I like, um, I like that I can be hospitable. I like to take care of people. I like to, I like to allow people to have a good time… I like that when I’m on, I can make people feel comfortable… I don’t know, I never really –

 

Paul: What do you mean, ‘when you’re on’? Oh, I see, when you’re –

 

Brenda: When I’m in a good mood. When I’m in a bipolar up.

 

Paul: I see.

 

Brenda: You know, I could walk into a room, and like, allow people to feel –

 

Paul: You have some energy to give.

 

Brenda: – vulnerable. I like when I can do that for other people. Where they let go of their like, uptightness. I like seeing that. I like seeing that process, like winning people over.

 

Paul: But you have to feel good to be able to give that to them.

 

Brenda: But I have to feel good.

 

Paul: Yeah.

 

Brenda: See, I’m thinking about going on meds right now. I haven’t been on meds for like, I don’t know, five or six years. I went on, I took Topamax. And Laxepro. Because I was having trouble controlling anger. I wasn’t going to therapy. And it helped a little bit, but then I was just on these meds, and I wasn’t seeing improvement, and I was like, well, I’m going to go off them. And I was fine, or I thought I was fine for a long time. Now it’s at a point where things are getting clearer, but yet it’s inhibiting me from like, I, like I told you from last week, or three days ago, I was so depressed, and I came out of it. And that night I had a show, and I could barely perform. I just, I couldn’t, I mean I went through the motions, but it wasn’t, I wasn’t even having a good time. And that’s what, I feel like it’s about. It’s about having a good time. It’s about giving them a good time, and going up on stage, and having a good time while you’re telling those jokes. And I couldn’t do it.

 

Paul: It’s the worst.

 

Brenda: It kept me from doing what I love to do. And I was like, you know, what’s the price am I paying? You know, because it feels good, at least for me, and what I struggle with, when I’m on a high that feels so good, and I’m so in tune with things I want to talk about, and ways to –

 

Paul: It’s like the Plexiglas comes down, and all of a sudden you can feel.

 

Brenda: Yeah. And it’s intense. It’s way more intense, it’s just as intense as the depression is. It’s not this like, stable, that’s nice. It’s this oh my god, it’s great! And everything just like, you know, it’s like you’re on –

 

Paul: It’s a variety of emotions, instead of just the same dull blah.

 

Brenda: Yeah.

 

Paul: Flat.

 

Brenda: Yeah, but they’re all good. They’re all like –

 

Paul: Yeah?

 

Brenda: Yeah. They’re all like, all, not positive, but just, you know, like the way adrenaline feels. But you know, adrenaline can feel positive or negative. You could be really scared before you do something, or you could be really excited, but it’s still adrenaline. It’s just how you’re perceiving it. So it’s the fun adrenaline.

 

Paul: Excitement.

 

Brenda: Excitement.

 

Paul: Yeah. Which is the opposite of what the depressive low is.

 

Brenda: Yeah.

 

Paul: There’s just nothing. And I think that’s why often, I think that’s why often self-medication, or engaging in you know, behaviours that are damaging, is because at least you’re feeling something. Like, last night, it was, today is July 5th, yesterday was July 4th, and I couldn’t bring myself to go watch fireworks. I just couldn’t, I couldn’t get out of the house. My wife understood. And just like, not like she wanted to go, anyway. But I wanted, I had wanted to go. But it’s that feeling of, I just can’t, I can’t leave the living room. It just, it feels safe. It feels right, you know, to be here. And it, it just felt safe to stay in the living room. But there’s also, there’s a flatness with going, I’m not going to go out and watch fireworks. You know, I don’t know where we’re going to park. Somebody annoying might be near here. You know, your depression paints all these negative pictures. So I’m just going to stay in my nice little small world, lick my wounds, and… but, there’s a flatness there that you’re, you still want excitement. And I just found myself eating every fucking cookie that I could find, hating myself while I was doing it. Knowing I’m just trying to jolt myself by feeling something, by eating these things. And that’s what I think we do when we, when we get stuck in those little ruts, is then we find these unhealthy behaviours –

 

Brenda: Yeah.

 

Paul: – to jolt ourselves into feeling something, even if it’s self-loathing.

 

Brenda: Is it feeling nothing, or is it painting over?

 

Paul: I don’t know.

 

Brenda: To me, it seems like, because I definitely reach, I mean I abuse, I always have a vice. And I abuse it until I you know, get to a point where I’m, well, this could be addictive, or I could be an addict now, so I should stop. But then I just change the vice. Like, I’ll just be drinking for a little bit, and then I’ll be like, oh, this is getting a little out of hand, and I’ll stop drinking. Then I’ll start taking Vicodin. And then I’ll, you know, I’ll put myself into depression, like whoa, you can’t take all this Vicodin. And then, you know, then I’m smoking cigarettes. You know, I’m doing, I’m always doing something that’s going to keep me from – or I’m eating poorly, you know. But that is just to cover up or to paint over the negative feeling. Because it’s something that’s satisfying for a small period of time, where I don’t have to sit and think. I don’t have to feel.

 

Paul: It’s like a little oblivion that you can just, that’ll completely absorb you. And so you don’t have to be in that, in those dark thoughts.

 

Brenda: In that state, of just feeling disgusting. But there’s the thing, too, about going back to that fireworks thing, I noticed that if I change my behaviour, I’ll always feel better. I can’t always do it. I understand that now, because I’m feeling good, and I don’t understand that when I’m feeling poor, or you know, depressed –

 

Paul: Even if it’s going to another unhealthy behaviour, because you at least feel like you’re moving?

 

Brenda: No. Not another unhealthy behaviour. But something, because I know the difference between, I know when I’m reaching for alcohol, I’m reaching for some kind of substance, I know that that’s a negative thing. I’m doing it because it’s easy. But if I, there’s a pattern of like, things that make me feel good. Like, I know if I, there’s times where I don’t leave my house for like, four days, if I don’t have to. Let’s say, if I don’t have a show or anything. I could be in pyjamas, and just be doing things around the house. And I’ll be working, but I won’t see the light of day for like three days. And I’m fine with that. But I know if I get dressed, and I go to the grove and just walk around, I’ll get an idea, and that idea will get me out of that depression. I’ll think of something funny, and all of a sudden my whole mood changes. But that’s also the bipolar, it’s like, something, or the PTSD. So, something could trigger you negatively, or something could trigger you positively.

 

Paul: Hmm.

 

Brenda: My description of being PTSD, I would, feels like a carnival dartboard, you know the kind that has the balloons?

 

Paul: Mm hmm.

 

Brenda: You are that. And people come by, and throw these darts at these balloons, and you never know who’s going to hit the dart that’s going to make the balloon explode.

 

Paul: Wow.

 

Brenda: And you’re just sitting there watching it. And anything could set you off. Anything. Like, look when we started the podcast. Asking me where I’m from completely set me off. I didn’t understand even how to speak for that moment. And that was a dart that just kind of hit me. I was like *phht* you know, and life is always like that. And sometimes I don’t want to go outside, or even to a party or something like that. Like, my husband will want to go to a party, and I’ll say, “Oh, I don’t know. What if it’s a bunch of assholes there? I’ve got to sit and talk to them, and I just, I can’t, you know? It’s just too much.”

 

Paul: [laughs]

 

Brenda: And I can’t do it, because I’m so, like you, going back to the anxiety of like, telling yourself that these things –

 

Paul: The crystal ball. Pulling out the negative crystal ball, which never paints a good picture. It never says you’re going to meet a new friend who is going to open up something new in your life.

 

Brenda: I know. And even when it does, there’s always like, the real crystal ball behind that going, that’s not true. They’re all assholes. You know?

 

[both laugh]

 

Brenda: That’s never going to happen. You know that.

 

Paul: Oh. Again, back to the thing that I say there, one of the worst curses you can have is pessimism and imagination.

 

Brenda: Isn’t that stand-up comedy, too?

 

Paul: It is. It is.

 

Brenda: Oh god. It’s a terrible, terrible business. And I hate that I love doing it. It’s terrible. It just feels, like, 90% of it feels awful. And then you get to perform, and that feels great, if you have a good set.

 

Paul: But there’s a lot of people that have pessimism and imagination that aren’t stand-up comics. That they have to deal with, and don’t even have the outlet of being able to write jokes about what they’re feeling.

 

Brenda: Jesus. I don’t know, I don’t know what that would be like. I don’t know what it’s like to not be honest with yourself. I don’t know what it’s like – and people aren’t. Like, people just, you know, kind of just lie to themselves all – I don’t even understand that. I couldn’t even function. Like, if I’m upset, I have to talk about it. I have to tell you. If something is weird… last night, we were at this barbeque. It was, my husband is in advertizing, and it was all these people I didn’t meet, I have never met before in my life. We’re sitting at a table, and I didn’t really like anyone. Didn’t like what they had to say, so I was kind of being quiet. And there was a guy there, they started talking about stand-ups, and the guy said, he goes, “I like watching stand-ups bomb, because I enjoy seeing them crumble.” And I was like, “Well,” I go, “That’s mean.”

 

Paul: [laughs]

 

Brenda: I go, “and I don’t agree, because that’s like going to a funeral and saying, ‘I enjoy going to funerals and watching the widow cry. Because she’s crumbling.’” And everybody around us, like you could feel the energy. Like, they all were like, they were starting to fight. And he was like, “Well, no, I mean…” I was like, “I get it. I understand. Like, I like watching, you know, somebody stay in their act and not acknowledge what’s happening. And then they’re doing an act-out at ten. And nobody’s laughing, not with you. Just like, how are you doing that act-out right now? Like [unintelligible] anyway. Like, I get that. That’s funny.” I go, “But I think what you said there is mean.” And my husband is like, “How dare you say that today, starting fights. These are people I do business with.” I’m like, “I’m not starting fights,” whatever.

An hour later, I go up to the guy, and you know, we started talking. And I said, “Hey.” I go, “Things got weird. I don’t understand why.” He goes, “No. They weren’t weird. I wanted to keep talking, but everyone else got weird.” I was like, “Totally.” And we just kind of went into it. We talked about it, and we ended up having a great time. But, because we were able to be honest.

 

Paul: Yeah.

 

Brenda: And nobody else at that table would have been able to even have that conversation. I was willing to talk to this guy about having two different opinions, that’s fine. You know, like, we started out the night, people were talking about tramp stamps. And they were all making fun of people who had them. And I have, embarrassingly enough, I have a –

 

Paul: What is it of?

 

Brenda: It’s an om, that I got when I was 18. Like, that symbol, on the bottom of my back. And they were all making fun of it, and I get it, it’s funny. You know, and if I knew these people, I’d be like, “Yeah, I have one of those.” You know, and then they could have said, “Oh, you know, yours is cool.” And then I could have said, “No, it’s not,” and laughed, and moved on. You know, that’s being real.

 

Paul: Is the om, is that the yin yang thing?

 

Brenda: You want to see it?

 

Paul: Yeah.

 

Brenda: I can’t believe I’m showing you this. This is a very vulnerable day.

 

Paul: Oh. Oh, I’ve never seen that. That’s called an om, how do you spell that?

 

Brenda: O-M.

 

Paul: O-M. And what does it mean?

 

Brenda: You know what? I don’t even know. Isn’t that really sad. I was, when I went to the tattoo place, I was 18 –

 

Paul: That makes it an official tramp stamp, by the way.

 

Brenda: Yeah [laughs] Sure does. God, this is an embarrassing podcast.

Um, I went to the tattoo place, and I said, “I want something that represents balance and duality at the same time.” And – so I guess it’s kind of like yin and yang – and he said, “Oh, this is.” And I said, “Ok, great.” And then –

 

Paul: Well then you did know what it meant.

 

Brenda: Yeah, but I don’t really know what the real definition is. I’m sure if we looked it up on Wikipedia, there might be a whole other thing. I don’t want to soud like a jerk.

 

Paul: Do you want to do some fears?

 

Brenda: Yeah.

 

Paul: All right. Let’s do a little bit of a fear-off. I’m going to be doing some listener fears. Do you want to start?

 

Brenda: Ok. I am afraid of change, and making decisions that I cannot take back.

 

Paul: I’m going to be reading fear from a listener named “M,” and she writes, “I’m afraid that even if I did kill myself, it wouldn’t stop the pain, and by that point nothing would be able to.”

 

Brenda: Oh, man. I’m sorry, M.

 

[both laugh]

 

Paul: That’s ok. You don’t have to comment on them unless you feel compelled to.

 

Brenda: I did.

 

Paul: Oh, ok.

 

Brenda: I wanted to say I’m sorry because that’s really, that makes me feel bad.

 

Paul: Yeah.

 

Brenda: Now I’m mad at her. See, got a lift from sad to anger.

 

Paul: [laughs]

 

Brenda: Um, you know, because it’s like, wow, I don’t, that’s really hard. And I sit here and complain about how hard things are, but I don’t feel that. That’s intense.

 

Paul: Yeah.

 

Brenda: That’s really, really intense. I’m sorry.

 

Paul: Well, I’ll, apology accepted on behalf of M.

 

Brenda: All right. [laughs]

 

Paul: I’m like the Indian girl that comes up and accepts the Oscar for Marlon Brando.

 

Brenda: Yeah. Follow me on Twitter, M.

I’m afraid that I’m not going to be good enough.

 

Paul: M says, “I’m afraid”… “I’m afraid of time.” That’s a good one. I’ve never had that one before, but I do fear time.

 

Brenda: Really?

 

Paul: Yeah, time just kind of marching on, and just like I’m not keeping up. Like I’m falling behind.

 

Brenda: Hmm. I don’t feel that way.

 

Paul: You’re lucky.

 

Brenda: Wow. But you’re falling behind?

 

Paul: Yeah. Just like there’s, like there was this life that I’m supposed to lead, because I’ve been given, you know, certain good things in life, and I’m wasting them. That I’m, as time marches on, I become more and more of a waste.

 

Brenda: Mmm. I get that.

 

Paul: My failures just pile up.

 

Brenda: I, yeah. You know what, I think I’m the reverse of that. I feel like I started late, and so I’m always trying to catch up. I feel like I’m in this perpetual state of catching up, and having to do things over and over again.

I’m afraid of what people think.

 

Paul: M writes, “I’m afraid that I will never find someone.”

 

Brenda: I’m afraid of people judging me.

 

Paul: “I’m afraid that my friends and family are all leaving me behind.”

 

Brenda: I’m afraid to be vulnerable.

 

Paul: “I’m afraid that I will never be able to get my father to open up to me emotionally.”

 

Brenda: I’m afraid of ghosts. Which doesn’t seem like that compares, after – [laughs]

 

Paul: No, I don’t think so.

“I’m afraid that when I attempt to make friends with people, I come across as desperate and pathetic.”

 

Brenda: I’m afraid to have kids with Down’s Syndrome.

 

Paul: “I’m afraid of becoming addicted to alcohol or narcotics.”

 

Brenda: I’m afraid of the en of the world.

 

Paul: “I’m afraid that I’m an undiagnosed sociopath.”

 

Brenda: I’m afraid of being alone.

 

Paul: “I’m afraid that if God does exist, he will gleefully send me to hell for turning my back on him as a young adult.” That’s deep.

 

Brenda: Mmm. I’m afraid that if I’m not, I’m afraid of not being successful. And then going back, and looking my parents in the eyes.

 

Paul: “I’m afraid I don’t want to either get married or have children.”

 

Brenda: I’m afraid of being a loser.

 

Paul: She writes, “I am a failure as a daughter and a woman. I’m afraid of how disappointed the child me would be if she could see what she turned into.” Boy, she is so hard on herself.

 

Brenda: You know, like I’m looking at my list. I’m like, I fear Illuminati. I mean, does that even matter? [laughs] And she’s talking about like what her dead mother would feel if she looked at her. I was like, uh, skip Illuminati. That note next to aliens. Um, oh, I fear getting old. Meanwhile, I’m like I’m twelve. Fuck!

 

Paul: [laughing]

 

Brenda: This is terrible! Like, I’m afraid of people, what they say behind my back. Jesus Christ, I’m so fucking shallow!

 

Paul: You are so not shallow. Let’s end the fear thing and do the love ones.

 

Brenda: Wait, wait, wait! I still have, I afraid of scary movies. I wanted to tell you that, too.

 

[both laugh]

 

Brenda: Alright, you want love? Ok, that’s ok.

 

Paul: Um, I am going to be doing, actually I do have some of my own loves.

 

Brenda: Oh, good! Because I wanted to, I wanted to hear yours. Because it made me feel super vulnerable.

 

Paul: I wish that I could come up with enough fears and loves so every time I recorded an episode, they were all mine. But it, I don’t want them to start becoming phony just so that they’re always mine. And I don’t want to repeat them, because the people that listen to every episode, I don’t, I want them to always hear something different.

 

Brenda: That makes sense.

 

Paul: I love forwarding and email from a listener to a guest, and hearing how touched the guest is. They usually email me back, and they’re like, oh my god, that’s so beautiful! People have no idea how much they touch other people when they open up like you have on this podcast. You will, we will get some beautiful emails from what you’ve expressed, and I will forward them to you.

 

Brenda: That makes me feel good. Because this is, it’s hard to be vulnerable.

 

Paul: It is.

 

Brenda: And the only reason why I did it was for that reason. It’s not something I enjoy talking about. Or even liking, even knowing that people know that. I mean, one of my fears is what people think of me.

 

Paul: Yeah.

 

Brenda: And so now I’ll then sit and go, oh what are they thinking now that they know that. Oh, I don’t, how I dress now!

 

Paul: No, they think that you’re brave, and you’re honest for laying it out there. But our negative crystal ball goes, oh they think I’m…

 

Brenda: Oh, man. My negative crystal ball is such an asshole. I don’t understand why people are like – you want to do a list. I’m sorry.

 

Paul: No! Finish your thought.

 

Brenda: I just don’t understand why we are so mean to ourselves. So mean, the things that I say to myself on a daily basis. I wake up being so mean –

 

Paul: What do you say to yourself?

 

Brenda: I mean, it’s different every day. It just like, you know, I say I’m a loser a lot. I tell myself I’m a loser a lot.

 

Paul: You really shouldn’t give yourself a thumbs up sign, though, when you do that. Because it’s very confusing.

 

Brenda: [laughs] What do you mean? You’re crazy, Paul.

 

Paul: I am.

 

Brenda: Um, no, I meant that in a nice way. As an endearing, Long Island way of saying, “I love you.”

 

Paul: No, I’m crazy.

 

Brenda: Oh, ok. Well, you know what though, there’s a difference between being crazy, and then unstable. I mean, you could see it in somebody’s eyes. Like, I look in your eyes, and I see love, and I see compassion, and emotion. You look in crazies eyes, and you see fucking crazy.

 

Paul: Yeah.

 

Brenda: You see it in a lot of like, head shots on facebook. You see crazy. And you’re just like, “That person is fucking crazy!” But you, you’re not crazy.

Um, anyway, you got a love list.

 

Paul: Oh, I… is it mine or yours?

 

Brenda: Oh, it’s mine!

 

Paul: Yeah.

 

Brenda: You know what? I love nonverbal communication.

 

Paul: Oh, that’s a good one!

 

Brenda: Yeah, I love when two people that don’t speak a language, the same language, and ten they communicate. I mean, I was in New York, and this woman that lived next door, she was like a prodigy, and piano prodigy. She was, we had this small apartment, it was probably as big as this room we’re in right now. And she had a baby grand in the room, and that’s all that was there. She would just play it all day long. And immediately for me, I was just, you know, “This asshole won’t stop playing the piano all day long, and I have things to do.”

So I went over to kind of like squash it. And she was Japanese. And she didn’t speak any English. So I had to go in, and just like, you know, talk to her and be nice. And then she ended up giving me piano lessons. We didn’t speak the same language! And then, this is the part that I remember mostly, and most vividly, is that we were on the piano, and I don’t remember what the joke was, but I made a joke and she understood it and laughed. With the correct timing. And I was like, wow! That was a complete, like –

 

Paul: Wow!

 

Brenda: – successful communication without even, we didn’t even have to use words. And it was a joke! With a misdirect! Like, how did that happen?

 

Paul: That’s amazing.

 

Brenda: Yeah, it was really cool. And so I enjoy – it happened with dogs a lot. Like, you know, I enjoy good nonverbal communication with my dog a lot.

 

Paul: Mm hmm.

 

Brenda: You know, but it doesn’t, it’s rare. But I enjoy that a lot.

 

Paul: I agree. I think that’s an awesome thing.

Um, I love a street singer giving me chills.

 

Brenda: Hmm. That’s never happened to me before.

 

Paul: Go to New Orleans.

 

Brenda: I just heard that yesterday. I heard the New Orleans is the place to be, at any time. That there’s like full quartets of, like brass quartets, just at all hours. And it’s just ok to be who you are at any time.

 

Paul: It’s awesome.

 

Brenda: Yeah.

 

Paul: It’s, yeah.

 

Brenda: I love having fun right before I do a set.

 

Paul: I love doing a flip into a foam pit.

 

Brenda: When have you done that? [laughs]

 

Paul: I went trampolining with a bunch of people form my support group, like two months ago. And we were like a bunch of fucking 12-year-olds.

 

Brenda: That’s awesome!

 

Paul: It was really fun. And we went out for pizza. I mean, we might as well have been in seventh grade.

 

Brenda: That’s awesome.

 

Paul: And we were all laughing about how ridiculous it was, but it was like one of the greatest nights.

 

Brenda: I love when everybody’s on the same page. Like, say you guys were all seventh graders at the same time –

 

Paul: Yes.

 

Brenda: – to get like four, especially when they have um, I don’t know what that’s called, but whether you’re conservative, or you’re liberal or whatever, like when you just have different perspectives of the world, but then you’re all feeling like a seventh grader at the same time. That is an amazing feeling. Yeah.

 

Paul: Your turn.

 

Brenda: Oh. I love making lists.

 

Paul: I love when a young person confronts their demons.

 

Brenda: I love facing my fears.

 

Paul: I love the feeling of safety from a new boundary.

 

Brenda: What does that mean?

 

Paul: Like, the boundaries that I set up with people that are unhealthy. Like, you know, if they do this, there’s going to be consequences. Or I won’t allow somebody to speak to me in a way that’s disrespectful. And then I, being ok with it. Not feeling guilty that I’m cutting off communication with them.

 

Brenda: Hmm. Wow.

 

Paul: That’s an awesome feeling. It’s like this safe, like good safe.

 

Brenda: Wow. That’s a really, really good one.

 

Paul: Boundaries are lifesavers.

 

Brenda: It’s interesting that you love them. Just because I, I don’t have that same, I don’t share that same opinion. I don’t, I like having them, but I don’t like setting them.

 

Paul: I think it relates to the compassion. Once you begin to feel compassion for yourself, then you feel more confident in your decisions. And then you see the boundary as not something, as letting somebody down, but as something that is you loving yourself.

 

Brenda: Hmm. I’ve heard that, like, saying no to other people, saying yes to yourself. Which I think is a good thing, but like the, I don’t remember what we were talking about before, but I don’t really understand the – compassion! It’s the same thing. I don’t really understand it. I get it, but I don’t really. I don’t live it.

 

Paul: I didn’t either, for 40-some-odd years. And I’m still an infant at experiencing it. But enough that I know that I want more of it.

 

Brenda: Oh, this is such a, I just felt an overwhelming feeling of negativity. Just going, Jesus, when do you finally get it? Because like, when you die? What, you just try ot get it the whole time, and then you fucking die? Is that it?

 

Paul: I think you get it when you begin to show, to people that are safe, you beignt oshow the side of yourself that you’re afraid to show.

 

Brenda: Huh.

 

Paul: For me, that’s what it was.

 

Brenda: That’s a quote, my friend.

 

Paul: Is it?

 

Brenda: Yeah! That’s really good.

 

Paul: Let me begin crocheting.

 

Brenda: [laughs]

 

Paul: Whose turn?

 

Brenda: I’ll go. I love the person I’ve become by knowing my husband.

 

Paul: I love any cake with cream filling.

 

Brenda: I love having my own schedule.

 

Paul: I love the chocolate ice cream at my favourite restaurant.

 

Brenda: I love writing my name over and over again.

 

Paul: I love flying first-class, and not feeling guilty.

 

Brenda: Lucky.

 

Paul: Yeah. Those days are over.

 

Brenda: Yeah [laughs]

 

Paul: Those days are long over, but –

 

Brenda: At least you’ve had them! My god!

 

Paul: I did. I did get to experience them, and it was nice.

 

Brenda: That’s pretty awesome.

I love having an audience in my pocket.

 

Paul: I love staying in a hotel I would never be able to afford on my own.

 

Brenda: Oh here’s, this goes back to what I said: I love having conservative people show their true colours, and admit their secrets.

 

Paul: I love a sexy flight attendant. Call me old-fashioned.

 

Brenda: [laughs] Yeah. I love – you’re like, “I love little girls in school uniforms.” That was creepy, sorry.

 

Paul: [laughs]

 

Brenda: I love when people admit the truth.

 

Paul: I love a waiter or waitress that is funny, attentive, and not too ass-kissy.

 

Brenda: I hate waiters.

I love acting like my dad.

 

Paul: I love French fries that are almost too hot to eat, and perfectly salted.

 

Brenda: Hmm. I love sleeping with my dogs.

 

Paul: I love getting a donation to the show.

 

Brenda: [laughs]

 

Paul: That sounded very passive-aggressive.

 

Brenda: Yes, it did.

 

Paul: It wasn’t.

 

Brenda: [laughs] I thought you were going to start doing an advertisement.

 

Paul: Oh, no. That’s after the show.

 

Brenda: Oh, do you have people that advertise?

 

Paul: I’ve had one person advertise. No, but I mean in terms of asking for donations. I do that at the end of the show. I always tell people if they feel like donating, I tell them where to do it.

 

Brenda: I love watching kung fu.

 

Paul: I love when my littlest dog shits, and it almost looks like he’s trying to do a handstand.

 

Brenda: [laughs] A reverse handstand, yes?

 

Paul: Yeah, I suppose so.

 

Brenda: I can’t not watch a dog shit. I know that that’s so weird.

 

Paul: No, it’s not. I’m the same way.

 

Brenda: Oh, is everybody, and just nobody talks about it?

 

Paul: Yeah, I don’t know. There’s… I never even think about it, but yeah. I suppose I also watch them, too, because I want to make sure that there’s nothing wrong with them. That they’re, you know, making a healthy poop.

 

Brenda: Hmm. No, I watch because I can’t, like, I can’t take my eyes off it.

 

Paul: It’s electric.

 

Brenda: I don’t even, yeah, I don’t even look at the poop afterwards. I just am watching it happen. It’s creepy.

 

Paul: Yeah.

 

Brenda: Anyway, who goes?

 

Paul: I think you.

 

Brenda: I love being skinny.

 

Paul: I love the feeling after putting away the last piece of clean laundry.

 

Brenda: I love taking drugs.

 

Paul: I love being vulnerable and not getting hurt.

 

Brenda: I love how it feels to laugh.

 

Paul: I love sharing something I’m afraid I’ll regret, then having someone thank me for it, and having then regret disappear, feeling a surge of love and joy and connection.

 

Brenda: Wow. Well said.

 

Paul: That one had chapters.

 

Brenda: Yeah. [laughs] There was a second where I was like, is this going to stop?

I’m out.

 

Paul: Good.

 

Brenda: That’s my love list.

 

Paul: That was beautiful.

 

Brenda: Yeah?

 

Paul: Yeah!

 

Brenda: I feel insecure.

 

Paul: Well, then you did a good job.

 

Brenda: Oh, is that how you know?

 

Paul: Yeah.

 

Brenda: Huh. All right.

 

Paul: That was really good.

 

Brenda: Thank you for having me.

 

Paul: It’s my pleasure. I know some of that stuff had to have been hard to talk about. But I appreciate it. You’re… you’re a good soul.

 

Brenda: You’re a good soul. I enjoy looking in your eyes.

 

Paul: Aw, thank you. Thank you. Right back at you.

 

Brenda: Yeah.

 

Paul: Brenda Colonna. Thank you.

 

Brenda: Thank you.

 

Paul: Many thanks to Brenda Colonna for a great conversation. And I’m happy to report I just talked to her on the phone and – we recorded that episode back in the beginning of July, and it’s now the middle of August. And she is back in therapy. She is taking meds. And she is doing yoga, and said she has never felt so clear and had so much hope. She really feels like she’s turned a corner, so that’s awesome. I love hearing people turn corners. Because man, when that darkness sets in it just seems so fucking real.

Before I take it out with a couple of surveys, I want to remind you guys there’s a couple of different ways you can support the podcast. You can support us financially be going to the website mentalpod.com and making a one-time PayPal donation, or a recurring monthly donation, which makes me extremely happy. You can also buy stuff at Amazon through our little search link box. It’s over there on the right-hand side of the homepage about halfway down. And when you buy stuff through that link, Amazon gives us a couple nickels. It doesn’t cost you anything.

You can also buy a Mental Illness Happy Hour t-shirt. And you can support us non-financially by going to iTunes and giving us a good rating. That boosts our ranking, and brings more people to the show. And you can also help us non-financially by spreading the word. Tumblr, Reddit, all those other social media, the more you can spread the word – not only does it help the show, but it also helps other people hear it, and know that they’re not alone. I get a lot of emails from people that say that they’re spreading the word to their friends, and that makes me feel good.

Let’s take it out with a couple of surveys. This one is from a woman named “Callie”. She’s in her 30s, was raised in a stable and safe environment. Which is weird. Wow, I can’t believe she put stable and safe. You’ll understand that as I read on.

Have you ever been the victim of sexual abuse? She writes, “Some stuff happened but I don’t know if it counts as sexual abuse.” She doesn’t elaborate.

Deepest darkest thoughts, she writes, “I pretend to be an atheist, but I am completely unable to accept that there may be no afterlife in my thoughts. Death is so terrifying to me. I deeply long to be taken care of by a kind older man. I would like him to find me attractive, but mainly to want to protect me. Sometimes I fantasize about my special need kid dying or disappearing.

Sexual fantasies are most powerful to you, she writes, “Being in high school and having slept with the teacher I loved. More generally, being younger and sleeping with a much older, wiser, experienced man.”

Would you ever consider telling a partner or close friend your fantasies? She writes, “I would hint at the idea, but probably not say how badly I would like it. My sexual fantasies aren’t that important to me.”

What are your deepest, darkest secrets? She writes, “My father having been sexually inappropriate. Having to perform sexual acts to get out of school punishment. Long-term eating disorder, and some self-injury that no one knows the extent of. Stealing and getting arrested. Having been beat up by a partner.” The, having to perform sexual acts to get out of school punishment, I’m not clear if that was that teacher, or if that, was that a teacher or was that her father? Because if that’s her father, and she thinks that was a safe and stable environment, that’s really sad.

Do these secrets and thoughts generate any particular feelings towards yourself? She writes, “They seem almost foreign to me. I haven’t really integrated them into my self-image. I don’t present myself as an angel, but I am highly educated and come off disarmingly honest. Yet I have these terrible secrets that I feel deeply ashamed of.” I don’t know what to say. You know, I don’t know I can’t just read some of these and not comment on them. Because some of these are so complicated and deep, it’s like, what the fuck does the guy who was on, you know, [laughs] Evening at the Improv have to say about – I actually never even was on Evening at the Improv, that’s how fucked that – of all the shitty cable stand-up shows I did, I’ve probably done 25 of them, the one I never did is Evening at the Improv, and that’s the one that comes to my mind.

All right. Let’s go to another survey. This was filled out by a guy named “Chappy”. He is bisexual. He’s in his 30s, was raised in a stable and safe environment. Never been sexually abused.

Deepest, darkest thoughts, he says, “I get really attracted, crushing on teenage girls. Was on my way to becoming a teacher, and bailed out because I couldn’t handle all the temptation. I knew if I was in that situation long-term, I ‘d do something stupid. No one knows that’s why I quit that career path.” Good for you.

What sexual fantasies are most powerful to you? He writes, “Three completely different genres. One, fucking petite little young teenage-like girls. Not children, but barely adults. Budding adults. Dominating them, not in the trappings of BDSM, but in the context of regular sex. Or watching some get fucked by big, black men. Really don’t feel racist except in these fantasies of seeing little white girls fucked by big, black guys. Number two, getting pegged –“ Which, I had never heard of before, but I guess that’s when guys get fucked with a strap-on, I think, or something. He writes, “Getting pegged by a hot, tough straight woman. Suicide girl types, tattoos etc. My feet up on the air, them pounding away. And the third one, more equal sex with guys. Mostly fantasize about giving blowjobs, but other aspects as well.”

Would you ever consider telling a partner or close friend your fantasies? He writes, “No. I can’t see any good that would come of it.”

What are your deepest, darkest secrets? He writes, “I had sex with another guy a couple of times. I’m not ashamed of it, but I know my wife would completely freak out if she knew. This was years before we met. I didn’t cheat on her, and she’s not homophobic, but just that I’ve kept it from her.”

Do these secrets and thoughts generate any particular feelings towards yourself? He writes, “I feel like at this point I know who I am, what I’m about sexually. For a long time, I didn’t, or I denied it to myself. I’m fine with my fantasy life as only fantasy life (i.e. masturbation fodder). There’s no point in upending things by bringing it up. I regret not having more sex with other men when I was younger, but that ship has sailed.”

And finally, I just want to, I’ve just been really digging reading these time machine things, how people would use a time machine. So I’m just going to read a couple of these. One person says, “If I could see how long I had to live, maybe it would make life more precious to me.” That seems like a pretty good way to use it. Another person said, “I honestly have no idea how it is that I even exist. My mother somehow convinced my gay father, unbeknownst to her, to have sex with her at least once. I don’t want to see that *shudder* but I do want to know what the fuck. Other than perhaps alcohol leading up to the event, how did that happen?” And then somebody else wrote, “If I can’t change any of the injustice of history, then I guess I’d just go back to the 60s and watch Ann Margaret in the shower.” Oh, I love the fucking honesty in these surveys. I, oh, it just makes my day.

Well, we’re about out of time. And I want to thank everybody that helps make this show possible. There’s so many people, from the people who transcribe it, to the people that collect the audio snippets. I want to especially send some love out to Megan. The guys that help patrol the forum. Stig Greve, my wife Carla, and everybody that emails in, and keeps me going when I’m struggling. Thank you guys so much.

And if you’re out there, and you are struggling, just remember, you are not alone. And things can get better, if you’re willing to reach out for help, and get out of your comfort zone. So, you’re not alone. Thanks for listening.

1 Comment

  • Robert Zuniga

    01/04/2023 at 10:13 pm Reply

    Intense podcast. Just seen some of Brenda’s stand-up on YouTube. So I Google for more and found this convo. Happy you posted she’s doing better. Good luck to her and hopefully more routines.

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