03/20/2015 In Podcast Episodes
Jeanie Bergen
Episode notes:
Follow Jeanie on Twitter @JeanieBeanie25
Read her Tumblr blog E is For Edna
Episode Transcript:
PG: Welcome to Episode 217 with my guest Jeanie Bergen. I’m Paul Gilmartin. This is the Mental Illness happy hour: honesty about all the battles in our heads from medically diagnosed conditions, past traumas and sexual dysfunction everyday compulsive negative thinking. This show is not meant to be a substitute for professional mental counseling. I’m not a therapist; this is not a doctor’s office. It’s more like a waiting room that doesn’t suck. The website for this show is www.mentalpod.com. That’s also the twitter name you can follow me at. So go check out the website, you can read blogs, joining the forum, take surveys, see how others responded to the surveys, and support the show as well.
PG: A little update on my conditions – I don’t know what else to call it – those of you who listen regularly know that I’ve been going through a bit of a struggle lately. I’m at about week 3 or 4 of going off Ambilify (sp), which has been a nightmarish rollercoaster to say the least, a lot of suicidal thoughts, terribly insomnia, and a lot of anxiety. Then my back going out because of the anxiety. Oh! Throw in a little constipation. Well… the constipation is better (laughter). That was too much information to share.
PG: I feel like I’m about 5% better than I was last week and because my doctor has put MSDFSFSF into the mix the insomnia has gone away. The insomnia has gone away thank god but the feeling of numbness is still there. What I did what to share with you is the new therapist – who specialized in EMDR and Sematic (sp) therapy – helps you get back into your body and if you’ve experience childhood trauma and stuff like that. I went to her this afternoon and I don’t think I’ve ever felt so relaxed. I sit on her couch and closed my eyes. She gives you these things that ultimately buzz and you hold something in each hand. Something about that stimulation s supposed to help you. She basically just talked to me for 45 minutes. Saying “feel the safety of the couch, feel the safety of the pillow behind your head, all you have to do is be here. Right tin this moment nothing else to worry about. I could feel myself starting to let go. I could feel certain muscles – releasing tension. I felt two of three times a twitch. When I got up to leave. A – I felt completed exhausted and I’m still feeling that way 8 hours later but my back didn’t hurt as much. And I’m really, really hopeful that this is going to be something that helps me. So just wanted to give you an update.
PG: Wanted to ask any listeners in the Boston area that might have connections to speaking engagements in Boston. There is a group of therapist in Boston who want to get me some speaking engagements and they have been putting some feelers out trying to get me some engagements at colleges and they could use some help. So email me at mentalpod@gmail.com and I will put you in touch with them. I did get the opportunity to speak at John Hopkins. A few months ago and it is something that I want to do more of. I could use your help so if there is something you can do or have connections in Boston or anywhere else actually. (Time Stamp 4:16)
PG: This episode that I’m going to air we recorded last week -- a lot of times last week it required months previous – something even a year or two – I don’t know why I need to mention that. Let’s read some surveys.
PG: This is from the struggle in a sentence survey, and this was submitted by SlowJoe about his PTSD. He writes: “wishing you could have had the fight so you don’t have to have the fight everyday forever.” That’s pretty profound.
PG: This is from KillyJoy talking about anxiety: “My heart bruises my sternum it is beating so hard my brain is a swirl of irrational thoughts and then berating myself because of these irrational thoughts. It just builds into a cycle of crazy, anger that I am crazy, shaming myself about being crazy, etc., etc.”
PG: A snap shot form her life. She writes: “I can’t do anything spur of the moment. I am not a fun person. I am not a good person. I have too much anger, jealously, resentment. I’ve spent everyday of my life since I was 17 trying to be a better person, only to have my depression flare up. It feels like nothing I do is worth it because I will always be sick, I will always be a burden.” Boy do I know that feeling. You are not alone in that. That cycle is one of the worst parts of trauma and mental illness; it is a little whirlpool that seems to drag you down if you’re not doing anything to combat it.
PG: This is struggle in a sentence filled out by AugustA about being a sex crime victim. He writes: “My first girlfriend that I had sex with. She used to brood about raping me until she finally did so and didn’t stop for two years. I came from an all mail private school where we ere taught to accept all forms of female attention. At the time I thought I couldn’t be a victim. I thought I was reaping the benefits of a high female sex drive. It was until a bad break up that ended up in Family Court that a judge heard my deposition recommended counseling and asked if I want to press charges. Letters, my space messages, pictures of my judges with multiple teeth marked scars all came out during the hearing which was enough to warrant a permanent restraining order from her. I didn’t want to throw her in jail. We were young. I accepted it was her version of what love is supposed to be like.
PG: And then a snapshot from his life. He writes: “Every woman I meet sparks the same fear of sex assault – even cordial passersby and coworkers. I’ve had positive female experiences since then: healthy family relations, long term girlfriends, an only female friend pool. But even a shared simile can bring up those same feelings and make me overt eye contact.” Thank you for sharing that August.
PG: This is filled out by Meghan D about her trichotillomania. “I want to feel beautiful again – regardless of how much hair I have.” A snapshot from her life: “Every time I hear someone says that makes me want to pull my hair out I get a dear in the headlights feeling. No you don’t, you have no idea what having those thoughts everyday feels like. I feel too defeated by the disorder to say anything. In fear of someone recognizing that some of my hair is missing so no words every come out of my mouth at those moments.” Thank you for sharing that Meghan. (Time Stamp: 8:28).
PG: A teenage girl who calls herself Flashlight about her depression. She writes: "Disjointed and separate not only from myself but from everything else around me.” – I totally relate to that. Then a snap shot from her life. She writes: “I feel like brain inside a body that walks and talks and does shit that I don’t want too but I can’t be bothered to tell it to stop.” I very much relate to this.
PG: Vicky G writes under the topic of sexual biases. She Writes: “Sometimes I wish that I were born a guy. Not in a transgender way but in damnit it must be nice to have a penis way. I mean guys get to stand up peeing, that has to be cool.” I just want to congratulate you. Here we are on a day or two away of the 4-year anniversary and this is the first documented evidence of penis envy. Took us 4 yeas. Freud you might not of been that sharp.
PG: This is an awefulsome moment filled out by Pickled. She writes: "My mother had been dead for two months. I’m at dinner with my narcissistic father and he starts telling me about his match.com account and the messages he’s gotten from different women. How one of them is near my sisters and my age. I look him in the eye and say clearly ‘Dad, I’m your daughter. Mom just died. I do not want to hear about this. Could we change the subject?’ I said that. He kept talking bout his match.com messages from various women. After recovering from my initial shock, I did the only thing I could think of. I said loudly, ‘How about that Packer’s Game last night?!’”
Mental Pod Intro music/quote montage – 9:47
10:52
PG: I’m here with Jeanie Bergin who is a writer. And I met you about 3 month, 2 weeks ago. It was about 3 weeks ago we did Taboo Tales that’s hosted by Lauren Sala (SP) who is a former guest of the show. I was so moved by your piece that you wrote and read I thought let’s have her on as a guest.
JB: Thank you, thank you.
PG: Where would be a good place to start with your story? I’m just going to turn my cellphone to airplane mode I always forget to do that. Where would be a good place to start with your story?
JB: Um…I’m not sure.
PG: Where are you from originally?
JB: I grew up in Wisconsin.
PG: Where about?
JB: Lake Geneva?
PG: Oh yea!
JB: Are you familiar?
PG: Popular vacation spot for those of us from Chicago.
JB: Yes! That’s where I grew up. My grandmother raised my sister and I in Lake Geneva until we were 14 and then we moved to Arizona. So it’s sort of half-and-half but I always say I’m from Wisconsin because that’s where my fondest memories are, my best friends still live back there, and I did not want to move to Arizona. I ended up staying after High School for Undergrad.
PG: What was the… I’m just going to move your mic a little bit closer…
JB: Oh? Am I too far away?
PG: It’s okay I just want you to be comfortable.
JB: Okay great.
PG: Now that’s perfect.
JB: Okay.
PG: What was home life like? Early childhood, what was that like?
JB: I don’t have a ton of memories from when I was little. I don’t really remember a lot. I have very sparse memories from when I was really small. Well one thing, my mom died of breast cancer when I was 3. I only have a couple memories of her. The rest is a kind of like a blur until I’d say the 1st or 2nd grade. That’s when I first start remembering things. Maybe that’s normal, I don’t know. But I feel like I don’t really remember a lot.
PG: I feel like there’s a lot of people that way. I don’t remember a ton of things from childhood. I’ll get together with friends from grade school sometimes and they’ll just start reeling off these memories and I’ll be like I have about a dozen memories from childhood
JB: (Happy Laughter)
PG: So was it just your dad raising you then?
JB: No. When my mom got sick, my dad left. He was never really part of the picture. So that’s when my grandma came in, she stepped in and started taking care of my sister and I; when my mom got sick.
PG: Did she come up to Wisconsin and was there for a while and then decided to bring you back to Arizona after your mom passed?
JB: Well… we were actually – we lived in San Diego until my mom passed away. So for three years, I guess I forgot that part. My grandmother didn’t want to raise us in San Diego. She thought it was too big of a city so she wanted to move us to Wisconsin. So, yes, we were all in San Diego until my mom died and then we moved to Wisconsin.
PG: Oh okay. So why the decision to move from Wisconsin to Arizona?
JB: My grandma had been in Arizona in some point in her life so she ran a dude ranch. So she had like fond memories of Arizona and she was sick of the winters.
PG: I was going to say, the Wisconsin winters can be pretty long and brutal. Especially if you’re coming from San Diego.
JB: Right. Well and shoveling the snow too. She was tired of shoveling the snow. I look back on it and think ‘Why didn’t I offer to help grandma shovel the snow?’ It makes me feel bad. But I didn’t offer.
PG: The important thing is you blamed yourself. That’s all that matters.
JB: (Laughter) Yea, yea pretty much.
PG: What are some early fond memories that you have of childhood?
JB: Probably school. I would say those are some of my fondest memories.
PG: And it was you and your sister?
JB: Me and my sister. We went to separate schools. In Wisconsin my sister went to a school for the disabled. So we were actually separated all through elementary and middle school. It wasn’t until high school that we actually – in Arizona they had mainstream schools where disabled studies went to school with ‘normal’ students – I don’t know, whatever you want to call it – so we all went to school together. So my sister and I didn’t go to school together until High School.
PG: Okay, and she’s older than you?
JB: She is a year older. But mentally she is about three or four that’s her capacity level. She has a rare form of epilepsy called Lennox Gaustaut syndrome.
PG: Can you spell that for me?
JB: Yea sure. L-e-n-n-o-x G-a-u-s-t-a-u-t. I’m actually don’t evne know if I pronounce it correctly. She has a rare form of epilepsy. My dad actually had epilepsy and he had seizures, but that’s pretty much all I know about it. But he was ‘normal’ or fine, mentally. He could totally function.
PG: He could get it together enough to leave the family. His abandoning skills were left completely in tact. He’d come out of seizure and be like ‘no, this place is not my thing’”
JB: (Laughing) Yea my wife’s dying. One of my kids is handicapped.
PG: My hips move freely as I walk down the driveway to my running car.
JB: (Laughing) Yea, exactly. So technically Edna developed fine. She started having seizures when she’s a baby, but she developed…
PG: Her name’s Edna? (Time stamp -16:25)
JB: Yea, Edna Mae. She was named after my grandmother and I’m named after my aunt, my mom’s sister. So she was okay until about 3 when the seizures got really bad. It’s caused the decline. She’s just kind of stayed at that age mentally. It was weird one time I found a cassette tape of my sister and I doing ABC’s with my mom and Edna was talking better than she does now. Completely fine. It was really -- I don’t know what I did with it. I listened to it and put it away.
PG: Was it hard to listen to?
JB: Yea, it was weird hearing my mom’s voice, you know? Now I’m crying. Which I’d never really heard before. So…yea. I guess I should probably find it. Sorry.
PG: I can’t imagine how intense it’s got to be.
JB: Yea, I mean. Yea. It’s weird. I have some pictures of my mom. I don't know it is so strange just thinking that there is this person who wanted my sister and I so much and she didn’t get to be a part of that. So she was super young when she died, she was only 33. That’s so young. I mean I’m 30 now…
PG: Isn’t it weird when we get to be an age that we remember our parents being?
JB: Yes, yea, so…
PG: So talk about your relationship with Edna Mae?
JB: Well it’s really good now. We’re really close. I just saw her today. We went to the mall for a couple of hours. It’s really good now. But when we were kids it was much different. I was really embarrassed by her. I didn’t like play with her as much as I should have I think. But it’s changed a lot over the years, especially since my grandmother passed away. I kind of had to, I did have to step in to the care giving role and take care of her on my own.
PG: You were how old when that happened?
JB: I was 20. She went to briefly go live with my aunt but she had a drinking problem so she couldn’t take care of her. I petitioned for guardianship and then I got guardianship of Edna.
PG: I remember part of your piece, you read the hoops you had to jump through to get guardianship of her. Do you want to recount some of that? (Time Stamp 19:20)
JB: I’m forgetting what I actually said in the piece. I had to go to court and petition and it wasn’t until the judge – because no one really believed me – my aunt is really nice, she’s very nice. They thought of she’s taking care of these two girls, or had taken care of them because my aunt helped my grandma, so everyone thought my aunt was this wonderful person. But she was drinking and passing out and not taking care of Edna. It wasn’t until the judge saw the bottle of liquor in her purse and [the judge] told me later. She said ‘Jeanie I saw the’ – [Her aunt] literately carried a liter of Canadian Club around with her in this bag – the judge told me that ‘I believe you ‘and it was kind of over with. I don’t even know if I shared that in the piece. I’m trying to remember…
PG: I don’t think you did but you shared about the person wanting proof and ‘Can’t I just bring my sister in to talk to you for five minutes?’
JB: Right, right. That was actually when I brought Edna out to California. I had legal guardianship in Arizona and a year ago her caregiver who was taking care of her passed away so I took her out here to try to get services established. They’d ask the most ridiculous questions. There were talking directly to Edna, while she’s reading her Winnie the Pooh book, and they’re asking her to spell her name – and all these questions for proof that she is disabled. When it is so clearly obvious.
JB: One of the funniest things about going to the Doctors appointments and they’d ask me how many times a week does Edna drink of smoke? Well, she’s basically like a three year old so it’s like – you know. I’ve tried cracking jokes before. You know the light stuff like heroine. Some doctors are not you know; her neurologist does not have a sense of humor. At the DMV, when they wanted her to sign her name I said I have to do it for her. They said ‘Oh just put the pen in her hand and you do it for her.’ It was this game of charades where…
PG: Pretending as if she could sign?
JB: I was like no. I’m not doing that. Normally I try to remain very calm but it’s been weird because it helped me stand up for myself, you know? Because I think a lot of times you know people, especially in bureaucratic situations with the government- people ask you do things and you kind of just follow along cause it’s what you’re suppose to do, but it’s really ridiculous what people ask you what to do sometimes. You have to say, ‘No, I’m not. Let me talk to your manager’ or something.
PG: What are some things that people who don’t live with a disabled sibling not know or realize that you go through or experience or struggle with as a sibling – before we get to the part about you taking custody or guardianship. (Time Stamp: 22:24).
JB: I think there are a couple things. One thing is that how great it can be in many ways. I had someone ask me what do you get out of it why would you do that. Well because, I love her and it makes me happy. There’s so many great small moments of her just laughing at her Winnie the Pooh movie or if she calls my name ‘Jeanie’ or calls out for me. That makes me feel good. That doesn’t happen a lot in everyday exchanges at work. Work cannot be so fulfilling sometimes but when you have someone who really loves you, that’s what matters.
JB: I think the other thing – a lot of people tell me not to feel this way – but the guilt. There’s a ton of guilt. I don’t know if I could -- if someone told me that if you had magical powers and could make Edna fine, she has no disabilities, she’s just fine. Would you want to do that? I don’t know. I don’t know because she would be a different person and I love her for who she is. I haven’t always, but I think the guilt of having her go to a group home or taking care of her and not being able to know exactly what’s wrong if she’s not feeling well. There’s just a lot of guilt. You know?
PG: I can’t imagine. I can’t imagine.
JB: I don’t know if that’s making sense.
PG: It is making sense because…. It’s on a bad day, it sounds like such a logistical and emotional burden. And everybody has a mean part in their head that talks to them that tells them bad things about ourselves. Boy that’s some ammo for you to beat yourself up about. What are some of the greatest hits that your brain tells you about you and your relationship with her?
JB: That I’m not doing good enough; that I should be giving more time to her. The weekends are really hard for me right now because I feel like… I don’t want her just sitting. In the home she’s in now sometimes they just watch movies on the weekend and they don’t go out, so I feel super bad if I’m out with my friends. Like this morning I went to brunch and I had some downtime and I felt really bad. I was thinking Edna’s probably sitting at the house so I should probably go get her. The guilt of that. I know it’s good. She should have her life and I should have mine. But I also just want her sitting in a room. She should be out. But I see that’s it’s not good for me at the same time because I need to be able to go out and have fun. So… yea… I think that’s mainly it. I need to be giving more time to her. That’s pretty much it.
JB: I think that figuring out, you know she should be getting therapy. What therapy options are there? There’s just a lot. She needs to get a new neurologist and I got the referral but haven’t called the doctor yet. There is stuff like that I need to be on top of so there is a lot guilt when I’m not on top of it as I should be.
PG: Do you ever get to a point where you feel just completely overwhelmed for having to be responsible for someone who is essentially a child? (Time stamp 26:26).
JB: Yea, it is. It’s a little bit less now because I have people finally helping me. But when she came to live with me and it was just the two of us and I was having babysitters come in. It was so overwhelming.
PG: How long ago was this?
JB: It was November of 2013. Yea and she was with me for 9 months. Yea so it wasn’t too long ago. In August she moved into her group home. When it was just the two of us and I was finishing up my last year of school it was too much. I think that I, I look back and I wonder how I got through that. I think it is because I was so tightly scheduled. I had full day of classes, babysitters and I was running around that there was no time to stop and think about what was really happening.
JB: But I remember I went to – I had a therapist off campus, but I couldn’t afford to go there anymore. I didn’t have time and wasn’t going to pay a babysitter for that. So I started to go to therapist on campus and I remember going to her one day and saying that I don’t know what to tell you besides that I feel like I’m going to collapse. I feel like the stress…I thought that I was just going to drop. Um… Sorry…I felt like it was totally possible for me to just collapse.
PG: I can’t imagine what it would be like going through college and taking care of a disabled sibling.
JB: Well she like… Edna’s really difficult. She’s very stubborn, we’re both very stubborn.
PG: Were you paying your way through college too?
JB: Yes
PG: Where you working?
JB: I was working on campus. So I had like a job. It was actually really cool. Every Friday the school would bring in screenwriters and I would interview them in front of the students and talk to them about writing. It was really cool and did not want to give it up. It could of given it up. It was a weird thing. I was living off loans. I could of said ‘Okay, I’ll take a year off from school’ but I was living off loans. That would mean that I had to get a full time job in order to support myself. With that fulltime job I’d have to pay the babysitter to come take care of Edna. So that wasn’t going to happen.
PG: Wow.
JB: So it was better for me to be in school and have the loan money and continue going to classes and in the meantime figure out what I was going to…I was looking for a home for Edna because I knew that I couldn’t take care of her full time if I wanted to have a job eventually.
PG: Have you ever gotten in touch with your feelings about your dad leaving?
JB: You know, not really. I have very… I guess I’m not… No…I feel like he missed out on a lot and I don’tt even know. I just haven’t thought about it too much.
PG: You just kind of locked that part away.
JB: Yea, like he left and I obviously know that he existed or exists. I think he’s passed away. I’ve googled a couple of times and found possible death date. Not a whole bunch of information about him. But I haven’t really thought about it too much. I mean he left… I just don’t, I can’t understand a person who would do that. So I don’t even know what I would say to him…
PG: Or what feelings would come up?
JB: Yea. It’s so weird that there is this person who created me and I have no relationship. He sent me and my grandmother a doll when I was 7 and I really liked the doll but my grandmother threw it in the trash because he asked her for money at that point.
PG: Wow.
JB: I don’t know. I just can’t understand a person who would leave his dying wife and a daughter who was diagnosed with epilepsy and another daughter and just peace out. I can’t understand a person who would do that. Yea… so…
PG: Give me some seminal moments of childhood or adolescent that kind of stick out in your mind as being particularly good or bad or bizarre or struck you in a weird way. Anything that kind of pops out in your mind. Paint us a picture. (31:30)
JB: This is kind of a weird thing that I think about recently. Something that my cousin spoke about recently that I had forgotten. So I spent a lot of time alone when I was little my grandmother and my sister were very close, so I was off doing my own thing a lot of the time. My cousin told me recently, I just reconnected with her, -‘yea do you remember that time that you ran across the road and almost got hit by the car and no one was watching you? I told grandma, ‘Jeanie almost got hit by the car – and then no one realized it and just went along with the business.’ And I said ‘No I don’t remember at at all’ but it makes a lot of sense. In a lot of ways I was just kind of running around doing my own thing and no one was watching me.
PG: So it sounds like you kind of raised yourself in a lot of ways?
JB: Yea, I mean I think so. But my grandma…
PG: How old were you when your grandmother passed away?
JB: 20, I was 20.
PG: Any you were in school at that time?
JB: Yes, I was in my undergraduate back in Arizona. Yea, I mean my grandma was always there for me and Edna. I remember my aunt would always tell me this, even when we’d get in fights. ‘You have roof over your heads and clothes on your back, I don’t know what you’re mad about.’ So I was always provided for in that way, but looking back on it my aunt was always drinking, my grandma was always drinking. Like I learned how to mix Canadian Clubs… CC and 7s when I was 6 -7 years old. That’s one thing I remember. One of my classmates went to school and said – well my grandmother had this rod iron liquor cabinet – and she went to school and said ‘Jeanie’s grandma’s an alcoholic.’ And she told everyone that. I was really embarrassed. It was complicated; I had to have a meeting. I didn’t have a lot of friends back then. Then this one other kid made fun of me for not having a mom on the monkey bars. He was like your mom is dead.
PG: You’ve got to give him points for directness (mutual laughter).
JB: I remember thinking, but I didn’t say anything that I knew he was adopted. I wanted to say something back to him but it was like so cruel. I don't know. It was just a weird thing. Looking back, why would I be made fun of for that? I don’t know. It’s strange. Yea but I remember Mother’s Day… I always hated that.
PG: What did that feel like?
JB: I always felt really weird. One year I actually really liked it. One year I wrapped up all my grandmas – I didn’t have anything to give – and I wrapped up all her perfumes with newspaper and put them on the dining room table and was like ‘Happy Mother’s Day!” She was happy but then said ‘ put it back’ (Laughs). So that was fun.
PG: It was for your grandmother.
JB: Yea, but it was like her stuff? (Laughter) So here’s all your stuff wrapped in newspaper. But I hated like at school I remember they had these booths set up where you could buy like necklaces and stuff for your mom on mother’s day. I did it and participated buy it always felt so, it wasn’t real. I knew it wasn’t what everyone else was doing. And on father’s day I just never paid attention to it. I didn’t feel as sad about Father’s day as I did about mother’s day.
PG: Yea that makes sense though.
JB: Yea, Yea, Yea.
PG: So give me some snapshots from adolescence that you can remember.
- Well, when I was 9 I went to go live with my aunt and my uncle. I really liked that time because I felt like…
PG: I prefer to say you changed drunks (Mutual laughter)
JB: Yea that’s what I did. Oh man, that’s true. It’s weird sometimes I’ll smell…I don’t really like hard liquor. I drink vodka but I don’t think my aunt ever drank vodka. I think that was the only liquor that wasn’t really around which I was I can actually stand it. Anyway, I went to live with my aunt and uncle, her new husband, so I thought okay. Now I have a mom and a dad sort of. That was a really good time.
PG: Did you grandmother need a break? Is that why you went to your aunt and uncles?
JB: I don’t know, I think she did.
PG: Did Edna Mae stay with your grandmothers?
JB: Yea she stayed with my grandmother. I remember I wanted to take Edna too and my grandmother wouldn’t let that happen. We lived across the lake from each other. It was like 30 minutes away. So I went to go live with them and then Edna stayed with my Grandma. And then that was for about 2 years. Then when my aunt and uncle got divorced we all moved to Arizona together. They were only married for a few years. But I really like that time because he did activities with us. We used to go on the boat. He would take me and friends tubing and I’d have little slumber parties. That was a really fun time because I felt like a kid I guess.
PG: mmhmm
JB: Yea, it was fun.
PG: What’s coming up for you right now?
JB: I don’t know… It’s just weird… but all those people are gone.
PG: I’m going to charge you for Kleenex.
JB: Sorry
PG: You are putting this podcast in the red.
JB: Sorry. Um…It’s just weird to talk about all of these people are not part of my life… anymore.
PG: It sounds incredible painful.
JB: Yea, I don’t really talk about it I guess.
PG: One of things that moved me so much in the thing you read about Edna was how emotional you got when you talked about her. It was so clear how deep your love is for your sister. You described she has two ways of reacting… is it no?
JB: Yea. She says ‘no’ or ‘no, no, no, no, no, no!’ but like really loud and she sakes her finger. It’s really cute but you can tell she’s mad, so you don’t want to laugh, but it’s really cute at the same time. She’s just really sweet and also really stubborn. One of the hardest things when she came to live with me was carrying her. She wouldn’t want to walk up the stairs so I’d have to carry her up the stairs like one by one. That was really hard. That was one of the hardest things about her living with me.
PG: What are the issues that you struggle with?
JB: Issues? Um… I think one thing for me. I feel like I’ve had to parent myself in some ways so I’m really, really hard on myself. So I have a lot of negative thoughts. You’re not doing this good enough. You’re not doing enough for sister. So I actually just tell myself – shhh. Like shhh… (laughter) - it’s helped a little bit. I don’t know if it’s necessarily a good thing to not think about it. I don’t think negative things sometimes, maybe that’s helpful. I don’t know if it’s…
PG: You don’t know if it’s?
JB: Don’t know if it’s helpful. Like maybe it’s good that I’m hard on myself? Sometimes it’s where I’m being really mean to myself. Like you’re really fat. You need to lose weight. Or you’re not doing enough or Edna. Even when I know that I’m really trying my best, you know? Um…
PG: I gotta say. I’m in awe of people like you that put themselves through college while you’re taking guardian ship of your disabled sister. Your father abandoned you, your mom died when your little, and you just keep going. I know you know, yes we have to keep going. Like what’s the alternative? But can you see how strong you are? Do you ever stop and go ‘I’m a bad motherfucker’?
JB: Um…Yea I mean I’ve only recently kind of been like ‘Okay I can be proud of myself.’ I’ve only recently kind of allowed that to happen but I still feel like I didn’t do good enough.
PG: Jeanie has taken her glasses off about 40 times to dab her eyes.
JB: (Laughing loudly in the background)
PG: I don’t know why she keeps putting them back on.
JB: (Laughing) That’s true. There’s no point.
PG: Are you going to read a legal document for us?
JB: (Laughing) Yes, I have it prepared.
PG: It’s kind of adorable.
JB: I was really hoping -- I didn’t even think that I was going to cry – but it’s happening.
PG: It was one of the things that was so moving when you read that piece. You had such a hard time getting through it and the audience. I mean we were all so moved by it. Your connection to your sister and how complex it was – the things that you had to go through with virtually no support.
JB: Yea, Yea. I’m so thankful that my friends stepped in when they could. But there are so many things that I didn’t want to share. I remember when she first came to live with me people were like ‘How can I help? Can I give you money?’ I didn’t want that that. I didn’t want to be pitied. Yes, I needed money because the babysitters were so expensive. But I didn’t want people feeling sorry for me. So that was… it was really hard because I felt like I couldn’t share exactly what I was going through because it would make it even worse and make people feel really bad.
PG: Jeanine, folded this story of Edna into another story about a guy that you were dating – I don't know if dating is the right word – fucking?
JB: (Laughing) Yea fucking I guess. I don’t know what we were doing. (Time Stamp 43:34).
PG: It was great because it was so frank. You just seemed really in touch and unapologetic about your sexuality. Where do you think that comes from?
JB: Um… I think just… I guess just embracing that that was fun and really just feeling good about that. Being slapped in the face with a dick I guess. I don't know. I feel that stuff because you know, you have fun, you get to have sex.. but the heavy weight of taking care of my sister makes me feel much older so I feel like I can be more open with sex stuff because I’m a young person and I’m crying when I’m saying this and it’s not fun at all. I think that that’s it, you know? Does that make sense?
PG: Yea, I think for most of us it is a place where we can go where… for me its like going to see a great movie or playing a great video game. It’s something I can lose myself in for an hour. Well sex, it’d be more like 5 minutes. That freedom of all the bullshit goes away. You were, I don’t know if I would use the word graphic in it, but there was just such a beautiful contrast to the heaviness of your live. I don’t know if that’s a road to go down in our discussion. I don’t know if it is important topic. Is there anything you’d like to talk about or elaborate? Or is there any other aspects where you’re able to let go of all the heaviness and the past and all of your responsibilities and negative self-talk?
JB: Um, I don’t know. I really don’t know. That’s probably a problem that I don’t have a lot of- I don’t think so. Not right now. Like when I’m really letting go? I don’t think so.
PG: Like on a scale of 1-10 how satisfied are you with your life?
JB: Um… probably a 5, probably a 5.
PG: What areas would you like your life to be more satisfying in?
JB: Um… my love life I guess. No, not I guess, I really think that.
PG: Are you lonely?
JB: Yes, totally. I think that for sure. Um… yea and it’s like I don’t want to be that person that’s like ‘I’m 30 all of my friends are married and have babies’ and I’m like ‘Oh shit I’m that person.’ But then last night I had dinner with another girlfriend – I think that’s when I’m at my happiest when I’m with my friends that’s where I can really let go…
PG: So that’s not how it used to be back when you were a kid, you were a loner and didn’t have a lot of friends? That’s changed.
JB: Yea totally. It’s also changed in that I actually tell people what’s going on now. I think with my sister coming to live with my full time I had to tell people what was going on because I couldn’t do tit totally on my own. I had to have people know so I could have some support even it is were someone saying ‘you can do it’ or ‘you can get through it.’ Just simple things like that really helped me. Before I didn’t really tell my friends what was going on. In middle school friends really embraced Edna and she’d go out with us and everything.
PG: So was that a little bit of a reprieve from being embarrassed by her? That had to have felt amazing. (Sneezes) Excuse me.
JB: Yea, Bless you. Yea and people who – like my friends who came over to the apartment. It was on Christmas and month after Edna moved in with me and my friends surprised me with. I was supposed to be staying out with one of my friends, Nicole, and she was running late and I see her outside and I was like, ‘Oh I don’t want people to come over’ because I was already taking care of Edna and that meant that I would have to clean the apartment and look halfway decent and chit chat about normal stuff when I wasn’t feeling normal. And I see Nicole, then I see my friend Chanel and her boyfriend Andy and they were carrying a Christmas tree and all these presents and it was just so great. They came inside. Edna came up to Chanel’s boyfriend and they were like holding hands. You could tell he felt a little like, ‘She’s holding my hand!’ because Edna’s doesn’t really talk too much – and he just let it happen and was so nice about it. And not everyone is like that. So that was really nice. Yea… I was like ‘Are you sure it’s okay?!’ And he was like ‘Yea, it’s fine, it’s fine.’ So it’s good to have people like that. That meant a lot to me. At some point I’ll stop crying.
PG: It’s okay.
JB: I mean I’d like to meet someone but dating is super hard, it’s horrible. I went on a date the other night because I was really excited because the guy was from Wisconsin too. I was like great I really want to meet a nice mid-western guy and then I told him a little bit about my family and he just completely shut down. Like he changed the subject immediately. He did not want to talk about it. It was very strange. That’s happened before.
PG: Well good to get that out of the way (mutual laughter). Weed him out right away. You don’t want to find that out after you move your shit together.
JB: Yea that’s true (mutual laughter)
PG: What are you looking for in a guy?
JB: Someone whose nice and understanding and just have a good sense of humor. I think everyone likes to laugh, but if you can laugh at really dark stuff and make fun of life that’s important. You know I don’t know I just haven’t had a great time dating here. I just want a nice person.
PG: Say that again.
JB: Just a nice person. But then I’ve met nice guys who are interested in dating me but I just don’t have any feelings for them.
PG: What do you think that’s about?
JB: I don’t know. The nice guys I’ve met are just boring and didn’t really have a sense of humor. Yea, I think they were too boring.
PG: are you attracted to guys that are a little more chaotic than the nice guys?
JB: Maybe.
PG: Like have you dated guys that are…what was the most exciting guy that you dated and what was he like? The guy who made your heart race, the most of the guy whose sex was the best or you couldn’t wait to see him.
JB: Well probably recently it was the younger guy that I talked about in my story. He was like 25…
PG: This is the guy who slapped your face with his dick (Mutual laughter) (Time stamp 51:19)
JB: Yea exactly. And I like hid my Spanx under his sink.
PG: Why did you hide your spanks under his sink? Cause you took them off and you didn’t want him to know you were wearing spanks?
JB: Talking through laughter. Yea
PG: That’s awesome. That’s handy if a pipe burst. Spanx will just…
JB: Yea, yea totally. I just hid them under the sink. That was fun. But he was like… you couldn’t have a conversation with him. I’m stuttering right now when I’m saying that – I don’t know, he just wasn’t, he was really fun to sleep with but not someone I’d want to hang out with all the time.
PG: And converse.
JB: Yea.
PG: Was he a boy toy?
JB: I guess, I guess that’s what he was. He was very good looking. I was like, ‘I don’t now why this person wants to be with me with my Spanx. So he was really fun, I guess that I haven’t really. One guy that I had amazing sex with, he was – he ended up going to jail. He had a coke problem that I didn’t know about for like a year. So I guess I'm not attracted to the best guys. But I was also 20 when that happened. Yea, so…
PG: When you picture the perfect guy, if you do, what do you picture in a partner? That you hope for? I know you said nice and understanding and sense of humor.
JB: Yea… Well there is someone – not sure if I should talk about it – who I think is perfect but he has a girlfriend so that will never happen. But I think someone who’s just really relaxed and can take – I remember one time this person, we had to go to the emergency room together and he was in a lot of pain and was cracking jokes the hole time and my ex- who I Was with for a long-time never would have been like that he would have been angry and yelling at me and it would have been my fault or something but this guy was just making jokes. I wrote down for emergency contact, I put unicorn. We were just being playful. That’s what I want, even though we’re friends, in a relationship. Just someone who can – cause shit happens- because you burn your hand and you have to go to the emergency room and you have to have someone with you that can laugh.
PG: Especially at the darkness and the bad cards that come your way.
JB: Totally.
PG: You’ve been dealt a lot of tough cards. You were dealt a tough hand to play.
JB: Yea, totally. But I’m sort of ready, even though that’s a big part of who I am. I think what I would like to be able to tell someone that and then be like ‘Okay I’m glad you got past it.’ Like what’s in the future?
PG: You don’t want to dwell on it.
JB: Yea, yea. I got married when I was like twenty… well I got engaged…
PG: I didn’t know that.
JB: Yea, I don’t really talk about it a ton. I got engaged when I was 23 and, I don’t know, I always felt like he felt bad for me. Maybe I felt bad for myself? But I don’t want that.
PG: Being pitied is the worst. I’ve been going through a really bad depression lately.
JB: uh-huh.
PG: And you know you’re supposed to tell people when you’re feeling bad.
JB: Right.
PG: And, long story short, I went off this med and the side effects were horrifying: terrible insomnia, no enjoyment out of anything, and lots of suicidal thoughts. And it hasn’t really passed yet. When I converse with people, they’ll say ‘How are you doing?’ And I don’t want to tell them because I don’t want to be pitied. (Time Stamp: 56:09).
JB: Right.
PG: And when I talk about it on the podcast I’ll say I’m not doing this for sympathy – and it’s, it’s like a catch 22 because you’re supposed to connect with people but the very thing that you’re supposed to connect with them over - you don’t want to talk about because its – you’re so fucking tired of thinking about it. I’m so tired of thinking about is this ever going to get better? Am I going to feel suicidal the rest of my life? Is everything I enjoy going to fucking suck? Is my only highlight of the day going to be my first cup of tea? How long can I endure a life that is like that? And when you – I bumped into this woman from Chicago that I know at the grocery store today and she was like ‘What’s going on?” and I just, I was like ‘Same old, same old’ and she told me everything that’s been going on with her and I couldn’t wait for the conversation to end because it just felt like… this is why people isolate. When it’s dark. When we’re just looking at that hand whether it’s temporary or permanent that is shit. What do you do when you’re that dark place and are you able to?
JB: I mean I’ve done that. I’ve totally isolated. In that situation in the grocery story, you can’t say…
PG: I’ve thought about killing myself for 50 times a day for the last month. How are you?
JB: haha Yea. Because people – what do they do?
PG: Even close friends at my support groups will say, ‘how’re you?’ And maybe one of two of them I’ll say ‘The suicidal thoughts are still there, I’m still not enjoying much of anything and I’m just riding it out.’ But a lot of the other people that are close to me, I Just cant get honest with them because I don’t want to fucking talk about it.
JB: Right, Right. Yea, I mean for me, I’ve isolated myself. I’ve had friends – there's been a couple who have been like, ‘What can I do? Can I do anything? ‘And I’ve pushed them away because I don’t want to talk to them. But then there’s also the right people that you feel like you can open up to and even though they can’t make anything better, they are there to listen. But you now I’ve totally isolated myself and shut down. My therapist was like I really think you need to go on something, especially when I was taking care of Edna, like I think you need to go to a psychologist and you really need to talk about this but I’ve been so scared of going on medication because I’ think I’ve gotten through this much, I can keep going. Um. I thin I’m okay now, but I think that I have battled with depression but I just haven’t gone on anything.
PG: Do you even get suicidal?
JB: Yea, I mean I’ve thought about it. When I was younger I took a bunch of pills. I was like 9… No I was a little bit older than that. I was okay. It was really weird because I took all of these antihistamines, they were my uncle’s antihistamines, and then they took me to the hospital, and then they were like ‘You don’t have anything in your system You’re fine.’ But I had to do the whole charcoal, they gave me the charcoal…
PG: Charcoal.
JB: But I haven’t tried anything since then.
PG: How often do you think about suicide?
JB: Not now. When I was taking care of Edna I was like maybe it’d just be better if I died but I was like ‘I can’t die I have to take care of Edna.’ The thing that was making me feel…
PG: Overwhelmed was the very thing was keeping you.
JB: Exactly
PG: Boy that’s a wonderful catch 22. My wife’s just shared that when she texts me from work if she doesn’t hear back from right away she’s afraid that’s she going to come home and find a body.
JB: Really?
PG: Yea. And that had never really occurred to me. That that’s something that she would go through. Which is another thing I hate about when the depression is really bad – and I’m not like this all the time – there’s just every maybe, once a year of maybe every couple of years, I hit these troughs that are really difficult and… I feel bad that I either don’t or can’t summon the mental energy to put myself in her place to be more empathetic towards her. Because it feels like I’m like hanging on to a cliff with my fingers.
JB: Right
PG: And to do anything other than just trying to get through the day feels like having to take one of those hands off. Do you ever feel like that? No? (laughter)
JB: I mean I have it – I think it’s a little less now. I felt like that more so when I was really in and just getting by day to day. I was like I don’t know how to do this. And trying to be there I felt like I was being a terrible friend to other people because I couldn’t, I didn’t know what going on in their life because I had too much going on.
PG: What do you do to get through the day when you’re in that place that’s super dark and you feel overwhelmed?
JB: I guess I just keep going I don’t know. (mutual laughter)
PG: I sleep.
JB: I sleep too.
PG: But I look at someone like you who has so much ore responsibility as I do. Fortunately, I have a live where I can sleep. I don’t have kids. I don’t have a 9-5 job. I can sleep. You’ve got a lot more on your plate.
JB: I mean that’s what I’ve done. Just sleep. Just stay in bed but I can’t do that. I mean I can do that now but I couldn’t do that with Edna.
PG: How far away from you is her home?
JB: 20 minutes, so it’s really close. But even when she was with me she gets tired a lot from her medications so she would take naps. I would take nap at the same time and then I’d be like I shouldn’t be taking naps, I should be working!
PG: You sound like you’re so hard on yourself.
JB: Yea, Yea I am. Um… But that’s pretty much what I’ve done. Just sleep. There was a time that I probably drank too much but now I can’t do it. I feel like I get or I am old and get hung over way too and the whole next day is shot. I don’t know I guess I just keep going. I don’t know. I don’t know. Not very well obviously, if I’m crying this much.
PG: So are you currently in therapy?
JB: No. That’s probably why I’m crying this much. (Mutual laughter).
PG: What do you think about going to therapy?
JB: Well I think I want to find a different therapist. I liked my therapist. I think part of it is that I’d already told her so much and I didn’t want to start over because I didn’t want to go through the whole thing again. I was like I’ve already been here for this long. But like I remember one of the pieces of advice she gave me was ‘I know you’re really angry so you could get a lot of pencils and snap the pencils.’ and I was like yea, I could do that but that sounds really stupid. (Mutual laughter). So yea, I should probably go back.
PG: How often do you feel sad?
JB: Um, a lot. Do you feel sad a lot?
PG: I feel numb a lot.
JB: Really?
PG: I actually don’t feel – Before I ever got medicated I felt sad all the time. My depression manifests itself in just feeling numb. Just feeling nothing except maybe anxiety or frustration but not necessarily angry. Just kind of a pointless endurance of the day. I’m actually feeling okay right now. My cup of tea worked and I played hockey. So I have a little bit of endorphins going through me right now… but today before my first cup of tea I must of thought about suicide 30 times – and not like am I going to do it – just like, it’s always there it’s always an option. Feeling cornered by my life and that’s the exit sign and in a comforting way to I guess relieve the stress. But I’ve been in that place where it’s sad, when I was just crying all the time and it seems like you’re in that place right now. I think medication or a different therapist or both could really help you with that. (Time Stamp 106:25).
JB: Yea it weird because that’s the problem; I just keep going but I haven’t talked about any of this stuff and I was angry at myself for crying at the show. Because I knew I was telling a dark story but I said I’m not going to cry. Then I started crying because I haven't really talked about it in a long time. And I was writing about it and then I also stopped writing about it. Because I think I just didn’t want to deal with any of that stuff anymore. Clearly, I need to deal with it.
PG: When was the last time you saw a therapist?
JB: Um… right before I… so December.
PG: You know I say find another therapist if this one is not clicking for you and you don’t complete trust this therapist. I think changing therapist. You live in Los Angeles there is a gazillion to chose from. I found a new one because I wanted to do EMDR and I went through the Psychology Today website - they have a therapist finder - and I typed in MEDR and then found one near me. They have a bunch that will come up with the search of what you’re looking for, I wanted someone with experience with childhood trauma and stuff like that – so you can read like a paragraph about them. That was really helpful to me. I think you deserve to feel better than you're feeling and man you’ve been through a lot in your life. A lot.
JB: Yea. What’s EMDR?
PG: Eye Movement Desensitization Reprogramming. I think is what is what it stands for. Basically it is a way to reprocess trauma that’s been wired into your brain, it’s a way to rewire it. When your eyes move back and forth and you talk about events that were traumatic while you’re moving your eyes back and forth it can actually rewire how your brain feels about the vent.
JB: Really?
PG: Yea, it’s had amazing results, especially with returning combat veterans and people who have experience childhood trauma, especially sexual trauma.
JB: I’ve never heard of that.
PG: Yea, I don’t know how long it’s been around but some people swear by it. I did a couple of sessions with a therapist 2 years ago and felt some relief from the few sessions that we did. I had to leave her for other reasons because she was scatterbrained and would let her dog come into the sessions and it was distracting and making noises.
JB: That’s a little weird.
PG: I was starting to get resentful at her. I was like this is, this is.. so if you want someone who has experience with letting therapist go email me or call me anytime cause I’ve gotten quite good at it. Any good therapist will congratulate you on making the tough decision to move on. So if any therapist fights you on leaving, that’s proof that you need to leave.
JB: Right, right.
PG: I mean a good therapist might ask you a couple of questions -
Is there something that you’re afraid to talk to me about? At least that’s what I would imagine. I don’t know but from the few times I’ve decided to move on it was always scary but never as bad as I thought it would be to have that conversation because it’s all about what we’re comfortable with and what we want out of it.
JB: Yea, I think I just really haven’t like made the time for it. I think that’s a huge thing. You know I’m working a lot and just haven't made the time for it but yea… it’s going to come up because once I start talking about it I start crying this much.
PG: Somebody tweeted something really funny. This guy tweeted ‘ I can spend one week’s salary on a therapist or one month’s salary on a prostitute. (Mutual laughter) Which do you think makes more sense?
JB: Oh my gosh.
PG: Do you want to trade some fears and loves?
JB: Yea. I wrote them down. Is that okay?
PG: Okay, want to break them out?
JB: Do I have mascara all over my face?
PG: No, you’ve done a good job of dapping. (Mutual laughter). I almost want to take a picture of all the kleen--OH! You’ve been using a single Kleenex or do you have a pile in your lap?
JB: Mutual Laugher – I’ve been piling and crumbling. Um. Yea. Sorry I’m crying so much.
PG: No this is hopefully a – I’d consider it a compliment that people feel safe enough to cry here. I think the listeners appreciate when the guest’s defenses come down. I know I do. That’s one of the reasons why I wanted to have you on. I knew you were going to be a huge crybaby. (Mutual laughter) Like, man she’s a baby; I gotta get her on the show. You know what I almost wish for when I’m in that really dark place, I want a friend to say something like “let’s go noose shopping” Let’s find an encyclopedia of knots and figure out which way you’re going to. That’s how I want what I’m feeling with to be dealt with between me and another person. That’s the only thing because I can’t… I have trouble laughing. And the only thing I can really laugh at is something that is dark and true and kind of fucked up.
JB: Uh huh.
PG: Are you the same way?
JB: Yea. And I’m really bad at like pretending. I have to get good at it with work now. But like pretending to be in a good mood or happy or thinking something is funny when it’s not. I had someone say to me ‘oh you’re not liking this at all” because I wasn’t liking it.
PG: Oh my god. We had a waiter last night who was the stereotypical struggling actor trying to perform while he was taking our orders. I said to my wife on the way home ‘that guy was -You couldn’t pick somebody who was more exhausting to be around when you’re depressed.’ Than someone who is needy for laughter.
JB: Yea… Oh god.
PG: Hit me with some fears. (1:13:20).
JB: Okay, I’ll didn’t pull them up totally. I was still dabbing my nose. Oh my god. Are we just trading? Will we go back and forth?
PG: Yea, I don’t have any written down so I’ll try to think of some.
JB: I fear that I will die before my sister and that there will be no one to look after her. That is my biggest fear.
PG: I fear that I will lose patience and kill myself when sunny skies were right around the corner.
JB: Do I?
PG: Yea, then you do one. Why do you want to say something?
JB: No I just don’t want you to do that.
PG: I don’t want to do that either.
JB: I understand. (Crying)
PG: It’s just a fear that I have.
JB: Um… okay. Um. I fear that I won’t ever be close to God again.
PG: I kind of have a similar fear in that I fear that I’ve - that the reasons I’ve been so depressed lately is that I’ve become a less spiritual person and I can’t even see it. So that I am really to blame for my depression coming back and that I’m blaming my body instead.
JB: I've totally felt that. I’ve wondered that a lot. I let my relationship with god go so this is… I also can’t force it, you know? Sorry. (cries) I just keep crying.
PG: It’s okay. I’m jealous how easily tears are willing to come to you (mutual laughter) I don’t know if it’s easily but how much you’re able to cry.
JB: I’m just crying. This does not, I have not cried this much in a really long time. Well since the show I did? No it wasn’t that much. I don’t really cry too much. I cried last night after my really horrible date (laughter). Pasqual my Lyft driver, I was just crying in the front seat. I don’t think he could tell because I kind of just put my hair in front of my face and just like of like, yea…
PG: Our episode, between my suicidal thoughts and your endless stream of tears we may lead a dozen people to drop off bridges (mutual laughter). Can you put your phone on airplane mode?
JB: How do you?
PG: Go to Settings.
JB: Airplane?
PG: Yea. Airplane mode on.
JB: Sorry.
PG: That’s all right. Otherwise I get buzzing. And it makes me suicidal (mutual laughter).
JB: Sorry, what a mess…
PG: I’m worried about your losing fluids! That’s how much you’re crying.
JB: I’m sorry, I don’t usually cry this much. Okay… Um.
PG: You are safe from having a sinus infection for the next five years, your sinuses have drained so much tonight. (Mutual laughter).
JB: I’m so gross tonight. I’m sorry. Should I keep going?
PG: Yea, yea. Give me another fear.
JB: I fear losing my memory.
PG: God, I definitely have that one. I fear losing my mobility. On top of all this other shit my back has been going out. I’m not sure if it’s from stress or tension or whatever. I have what’s called spinal stenosis which means your spinal column is very narrow so you get pinched nerves and stuff more easily than the average person. So I have this fear that I'm going to get to the point where my back will never be able to recover. So then I’ll be in back pain and have to take meds or whatever and then have to dance that dance as a recovering alcoholic. I have that looming on the horizon. That’s one of the greatest hits when I’m getting into that place when the suicidal thoughts are coming. That’s one of the ones that keeps coming back over and over. Your health is consistently day by day going and it’s only going to get worse. So there’s another reason. (Time Stamp 1:18:00)
PG: The other one that comes up is that the globe is running out of water. For some reason that one keeps coming up. And I’m like Do you really want to be around when people are waiting around, waiting in line shooting each other for a gallon of water for the day? Whatever negative piece of news there could be –so I’m trying to avoid the news. I have these thoughts where I know this is ridiculous. This is just the darkness talking to me. And I try to put myself in that place where, when my life has been clicking and I’m enjoying everything and things don’t feel like an effort and I enjoy woodworking. And I remember, okay, you were in that place one time. You were in that place one time and you can get back that. That’s kind of a cliff that I keep my fingers on. I don’t want to make it sound like I’m ready to kill myself. I’m not ready to kill myself. I’m just in that place where it is a persistent thought, when that feeling is there. Because I’m feeling very self-conscious now that I’m being overly dramatic and I’m trying to get sympathy.
JB: No, in a weird… I guess I’ve never talked to someone who just has said that or talked about suicidal thoughts. This is going to sound awful but it is refreshing in a way because it is like I’ve totally had those thoughts. There’s been times in my life when I thought about it constantly but I never wanted to tell anyone cause I thought. Oh they’re going to say I’m crazy or…
PG: Not going to want to be around me.
JB: Not going to want to be around me or I’m not going to be able take care of Edna. I knew I wasn’t going to do anything, I was just thinking about it all the time.
PG: Yea, that’s where I’m at. My therapist said, 'Are you planning anything?' And I’m like, 'No, I’m not.' I have no plans for everything. It’s a recurring thing. It’s like there’s an ache and it’s the only thing that can be applied to that ache is the idea of that. That’s kind of where I’m at. Give me another fear.
JB: Sorry, I’m taking my pills right now (??). I fear that I wont ever find anyone to love me. I have friends probably. I feel like I could very much end up being 40/50 and not have a kids, or a family, a husband. I fear that.
PG: This one is so fucking superficial. I’m the Chicago Blackhawks are never going to win another Stanley Cup (Mutual laughter). That there’s just going to get worse and worse and that eventually they’ll become so bad - And there’s no cause for this to be a thing. But I enjoy watching them and I’m just so afraid that that pleasure in life is going to go away because they will be so bad.(Mutual laughter). I actually enjoyed watching them yesterday and today so I might be getting better. Because last week I couldn’t even… I didn’t enjoy playing hockey and I didn’t even enjoy watching hockey and those are like my too favorite things to do. But I enjoyed watching hockey yesterday so I’m like ‘Maybe, maybe I’m on the upswing. I’m hopeful. Very hopeful. That’s a very superficial one.
JB: I like that. (Mutual laughter).
PG: When you have days when the things that give you pleasure you can hold in the palms of your hand and one of them goes away it’s fucking scary. It’s scary. Like when I go and have my cup of tea that gives me a two-hour window of feeling good about life and I don’t get that caffeine buzz. I fucking hate that. I hate that. It’s like come on universe. Can you even give me that? Can I get an hour out of this day where I feel a sliver of passion? That’s when the suicidal thoughts get like: ‘okay universe is this what you want? Is this what you fucking want?’ How was that for a long fear? (Mutual laughter). Give me another one yours.
JB: I think I ran out of ones I wrote down.
PG: That’s okay. Let’s do some loves. Let’s turn this negatively wagon around. (Mutual laughter).
JB: Maybe I’ll stop crying on this one. Do you want to go first?
PG: Um… God I just had one. I was listening to a song the other day and there was something that a singer did and I was like man I fucking love that but I can’t remember what song it was. Give me one of yours.
JB: This is really silly, but I love the way trees look when the sun is setting behind it. It’s one of my favourite things. I love it.
PG: I love when you order a pizza and it’s too hot to eat at first and then that first big bite when it’s cooled off just enough that it’s just below burning-your-mouth-hot.
JB: I like that but I’ll still eat it if it’s like really hot and just burn my mouth horribly.
PG: Oh yea, you just chew with your mouth open really wide.
JB: Another love. I love the ocean and the way it makes me feel really safe. I feel like I could be going through some really horrible thing and I can just go to the beach and sit there and I’m so much better.
PG: I’m that way with the beach but also with the mountains. Sitting by a stream in the mountains, I don’t think I’ve ever been in a bad mood. Sitting by a stream. But soon there wont be streams because of climate change. (Mutual laughter).
JB: And no ocean.
PG: I’ll go up there to commit suicide saying at least my last moment will be by a stream and it will just be a dry creek bed. (Mutual laughter).
JB: Oh no! (Laughter)
PG: Give me another love.
JB: I’ll have to look. I love the way my sister, well when we’re riding in the car together she taps her right food to the beat of the music. I love that and think it’s so cute. She doesn’t really talk a bunch. It’s little stuff like that that I know she’s more there than what she gives off or that she can express. It’s little things like that. I love that.
PG: I love people who don’t run away from responsibility. People like you.
JB: Thank you. Um…
PG: And people who put themselves through college. That, that I really love because I look at that like climbing Mount Everest in sandals.
JB: Well I mean I feel like I did put myself through college but I’m not totally done because I have to pay all these student loans off so Ill be doing that for the rest of my life. You know? So… It should be much cheaper to go to school I think.
PG: It just seems to be getting more and more expensive.
JB: Back in Arizona I didn’t go to a junior college, but they have really good Junior colleges back there, and Arizona just cut all the state funding for Junior Colleges.
PG: Of course!
JB: It’s so crazy.
PG: We’ve got wars to fight Jeanie. (Mutual laughter). We’ve got people to bomb we cant be educating.
JB: That’s pretty much Arizona.
PG: We’ve got a world to police. I think Barry Crimmins (sp) is this comedian - he was on stage one time and was doing some stuff that was critical of the US Government and someone in the audience said ‘if you don’t like America why don’t you leave?’ and he said ‘What and be a victim of our foreign policy?” (Mutual laughter).
JB: That’s so good. Right in the moment?
PG: Isn’t it? I was jealous when I heard it. Yea. Um is it my turn for a love? I love being honest in a way that is unapologetic. Even though I’m going to second guess myself – which I always do when I inject myself into the episode and my issues or whatever I’m going through. I will go through periods on the drive home and go – why did you have to be Mr. look at me? I’m a sad sack. I have suicidal thoughts. I love when I can quiet that voice in my head and just be completely honest about who I am, where I am, what I’m at, and what I’m going through and be heard, felt, and seen without apology. I love that feeling. It’s almos t like um… like coming clean or letting go. It’s a feeling of just ‘Ahh.’ You where, where especially when somebody isn’t going to try to fix me. I think that’s a lot of times why I don’t open up to somebody or to specific people is because I don’t want somebody, I don’t want to feel like I’m on the operating table. You know what I mean?
JB: Right.
PG: I don’t want someone who is going to be like – ‘Have you tried grounding up soy nuts and drinking it?’ One of the reasons I’m so depressed is that I’m tired of my mind spinning about ways to feel better. Can’t you just make a joke about a gun or a noose? (Time Stamp 1:28:44).
JB: Right. What’s so weird is that everyone is going through something. Everyone. Most people don’t say anything about it. And I don’t know why we’re all just trying to fix. When I hear you talk about suicidal thoughts I want to – it makes me sad. But it also, I understand. I’ve been there. But I don’t want to tell you to be quiet. I don’t want someone to tell me to be quiet. But everyone has something. I’m rambling but everyone has something there’s going through, you know?
PG: Everybody does and I feel blessed in many ways in that I have an occupation where I can be honest about it. Where it’s actually - Well I have something to talk about on this week’s episode. I’m not going to be lost for words. I don’t have the stigma of that. There are so many people where their careers could be in jeopardy if they got super honest about what they think and how they feel and the issues that they’re deal with. I feel very lucky in that respect. I think we’re lucky here in Los Angeles in that it is almost a badge of honor in the creative arts. Oh you’re tortured? Well maybe your art will be better. Sadly, no. (M utual laughter) (Time Stamp- 1:30:16).
JB: Yea. There’s this song, I think it’s from Nick Hornby called ‘From Above’ and its talking about maybe that’s why songs get sung and books get written. Basically because you’re traumatized.
PG: Because you’re fucked up and you’re in pain?
JB: Yea. (Mutual laughter).
PG: I think about that sometimes. I think well, if there wasn’t drama we wouldn’t have movies. If there wasn’t pain, pleasure wouldn’t feel as good. If there wasn’t depression, euphoria wouldn’t feel as good. But I just wish I could control the length of it. But this is just one more surrender, there are so many things that require our surrendering. Every time you think you’re done surrendering to something you have no control over, there’s another thing coming up.
JB: Yea, I’m always constantly worried that anytime there is moment of happiness or things are going okay. I’m like, no. This isn’t going to last for very long. Something horrible is coming along.
PG: Yes, I’m just a fool being setting up again for the rug to be pulled out form underneath me. Well I can tell you, my experience is the more I work on stuff the longer the stretches of being able to enjoy stuff and quite that voice. I’ve actually been able to get better at that and to enjoy the groove when I’m in it. Even knowing this isn’t going to last forever, the darkness is going to come back, the set back is going to come back, or some wrench is going to be thrown. But I… I know that feeling. I’m second-guessing the living shit out of myself right now.
JB: Yea, I do that.
PG: Give me another love.
JB: I love cheese. (Mutual laughter).
PG: Well you lived in Wisconsin! What's your favorite type?
JB: Like I could eat blocks of cheese. I really like this Serah Cheese (sp) from Trader Joe’s. It’s really good.
PG: It’s raw cheese?
JB: It’s made of Serah.
PG: Oh, the wine Serah? Mmm.
JB: It’s very good. It’s delicious.
PG: I love a perfectly grilled cheese. Perfectly grilled, grilled cheese sandwich with the right balance. It’s really got to be on shitty white bread to be really perfect. Although good sourdough can be really good. Give me one more.
JB: Um I love having my neck kissed. It’s like one my favorite things.
PG: Yea? That’s a nice one. (Mutual laughter). (Time stamp 1:33:18).
PG: Well Jeanie thank you for coming and opening up…
JB: Crying. (Mutual laughter)
PG: Being a blubbering baby. Soaking my nice wood table with your salty tears. I’m really glad that our paths crossed and you definitely feel like a kindred spirit and I think the listeners are going to feel that way too. I think a lot of the stuff that you shared is going to resonate with a lot of people and I think that it is going to bring them comfort or there’re going to roll their eyes and puke. One of the two.
JB: Probably (Mutual laughter). Thank you for having me.
PG: Thanks Jeanie. Many, many thanks to Jeanie and she gave me a really sweet picture to post on the website of her and Edna so if you get a chance to visit the website, it’s really sweet. (Time Stamp: 1:34:10).
PG: Before I take it out with some surveys and an email. I wanted to take the time to tell you guys there are couple of different ways to support the podcast. If you feel so inclined you can support us financially by going to the website which is www.metanlpod.com. You can make a one time PayPal donation, or my favorite, become a monthly recurring donor for as little as 5 bucks a month. It really, really helps keep the podcast going and means the world to me. The link to it is right on our homepage. You’ll see it, it says donate to PayPal. So just click on that.
PG: Another way that you can help out: Lately we haven’t been getting a lot of ratings on iTunes and that would greatly help if you could go there and write something nice if it feels true. Give us a good rating because that will boost our ranking and get us on the homepage of iTunes, which brings us more listeners. That doesn’t cost anything and I’d greatly appreciate if you would go do that.
PG: Anything short of that, go fuck yourself. How about that? How does that grab you? I felt like there was going to be a third thing that was going to wrap it up nicely and it turns out there was nothing. Oh, you can also... well who gives a fuck. I am so exhausted right now. (Time Stamp 1:35:39).
PG: This is an email I got from a guy who calls himself Mark. He writes “I am on the D&I team in my office” – I don’t know what that means. I think it means Dicks and Intestines, but I could be wrong - “I’m on the D&I team at my office and I was asked to read a pamphlet bout diversity at our last meeting. I chose to speak about mental illness. I read some brief facts like that 1 in 5 Americans suffer etc. After reading the message, I, to a room of coworkers that I barely know, confirmed that I suffer form mental illness. For the record I suffer from depression, social anxiety disorder, and body dysmorphic disorder. I told them that I wanted to see what they thought depression was or look like and reflect that it looks like the smart ass that sits in the corner cubicle. They were all very comforting talking about people they know who suffer and even asked me to describe body dysmorphic disorder, which I did. They asked how I combat these illnesses. I talked about therapy, meditation, and about studying Brazilian jujitsu. I was scared to identify myself to basic strangers but I got rave reviews and many have even asked outside of the meeting about my martial arts studying. So it does appear, even the people you barely know do care.” It warmed my read that. Thank you Mark.
PG: This is struggle in a sentence filled out be Jenny. She writes about her co-dependency: “Do I thank mom for the generous offer or do I spit in her face for trying to use me to feel important?”
PG: This is the same survey filled out Jessica. It’s certainly more than a sentence but I really like what she had to write. About her bulimia, she writes: “I’ve been taken away from this world by an abusive force: food. It’s my everything. My every thought. It’s my lover and abuser. It’s been 20 years now since I first felt that high from throwing up. Seeing the results from my binge in the toilet and feeling like I’ve done a good job getting it all out of my body. Or like I’ve done horribly and I must get it all out. Bending over and trying to fit food into my body because my stomach is in pain. I’m so full I can’t stop eating yet. Wait, my eating disorder wants me to eat one more thing. Thinking to myself, ‘It’s okay Jess, just get it done, then you can go to bed. Just listen to your eating disorder Jess, then you can rest.’ I’ve ruined my life with bulimia. I’ve ruined my family with bulimia. I lived a fake life for a while. Getting married, having children, working as a registered nurse. Me and bulimia were secret buddies my whole life and now it’s out in the open and I’ve never been so scared, ashamed, and run down. Seeing the effects it has taken on my body over the years. I’ve had many endoscopies to dilate my esophagus due to all the scar tissue only to be throwing up later on in the day. My stomach doesn’t work right. I have to stand up and push on my perineum with my hands to have a bowel movement. Oh shit it’s been way more than few words. Sorry.”
PG: And about her anorexia she writes: “I’m important when I’m underweight” And then a snapshot from her life: Her baby had had an accident which it survived and it was okay but she writes: “The emergency responders took my baby out of my arms and everything in my head went to, my baby, my baby, she can’t die. Did I eat that cookie this morning? You better not have. You better not have food in your stomach.” Thank you so much for that Jessica. I’m sending you a big, big hug. (Time stamp 1:39:24).
PG: Now this is an awfulsome moment that was filled out by Alex and she writes: “I was in the hospital emergency department after taking an overdose of painkillers. It was a Friday evening and the waiting room was busy but they took me straight through. A nurse came and said she needed to take a blood sample. I hate needles so much and have paranoia about what they do with blood after they taken it too. She was so friendly and chatted with me as she prepared the needle and vials. I offered her my arm and she did the whole arm-belt and swab thing and then she started to attempt to take a sample and nothing happened. For some unknown reason my blood was staying put in my veins. So we tried again. This time on my hand. Again, nothing came. The third attempt was on my other hand and she still couldn’t more than a few drops out of me. By this point she is apologizing over and over and on the fourth failed attempt we both start giggling at just how absurd the situation is. It was truly awfulsome. My worst nightmare and there I was in the middle of a serious depression, in hospital, in fits of giggles. Eventually she gave up and got a different nurse to try it and of course that other nurse managed to get the sample they needed on the first try.” Thank you for sharing that.
PG: I actually passed out one time. I was getting, they were checking my – I was out of breath all the time and I went to go get test done at Cedar-Sinai and they couldn’t – they wanted to measure your oxygen while you’re exercising. They do that by getting samples of your blood while you’re exercising but they couldn’t find a vein in my hand. They just kept poking me and poking me and poking me. Eventually I started to faint and they were like, ah I think we’re just going to do this test without it.
PG: This is from the what has helped you survey. This was filled out by a woman who calls herself Sillygirl and her issues and struggles are: “My mother is very emotionally abusive and she drank quite frequently when I was younger. She had an awful childhood I think and abuses the respect I don’t think she got from her mother. Ironic that it came full circle back to me and my sister. I get terribly bouts of anxiety, depression, nausea, etc. I also like wrapping my arms around my mouth until big red welts form. Sometimes they scar and bleed.” I had trouble wrapping your arms around the mouth. I guess you’re just talking about biting your arm.
PG: What has helped her to deal with them?: “I clean a lot. I get nervous and start cleaning everything in my house. Even things that are already fine. I’m trying hard not to deform my arms because my sister lives with me and she knows my triggers. I want her to know I’m fine. I feel safe with her because she has diagnosed depression so she gets it. But sometimes I feel guilty and ashamed that my sister is burdened with the knowledge of who I am and what I do to myself as if her journey to mental wellness isn’t hard enough.” Thank you for sharing that.
PG: This is a shame and secrets survey from a guy who calls himself Rotten Teeth. He is straight, in his twenties, and was raised in a safe and stable environment, he’s never been sexually abused, never been physically or emotionally abused. Darkest thoughts, He writes: “Well here we go. For almost as long as I’ve had sexual feelings I can remember having sexual fantasies about my family members. Mothers, sisters, aunts, cousins, and grandmothers. I was going to say and even grandmothers but I think this is already into weird/shock territory. I’ve always been so embarrassed and humiliated by it but it’s been the thing that turns me on almost more than anything else. Most of the porn I’ve chosen to watch tends to be incest porn or other older woman with younger man porn or/and usually both. I honestly don’t really know why. There’s been no abuse in my childhood, not even things that I could stretch and say ‘well maybe it was.’ My home was really stable especially in comparison with stuff I hear from friends and from the podcast. All the kids got a long, dad was always employed, and parents are still together and happily married. Everyone except me has gone to university and gotten degrees etc. I guess there’s stuff that makes sense as catalyst for this screwed up fetish.
PG: “I grew up in a strongly conservative and religious home. So in home and in church sex was always only to do in marriage. And you only marry the person that you love more than anyone else. So in a way I think I’ve always linked sex/lust with love, which isn’t always the case. So I think with that, growing up with my mom and sisters, and grandmother who lived with us for a while, are the women in my life who I love. So my brain links that with sex somehow. Maybe. Because my parents are religious and have conservative views about sex they hated the way the school system talks about sex in health class. They thought it was too obscene or blunt or something. So they’d always find a way to take me out of those classes. That isn’t really a problem in itself, except they never did any teaching on their own in the home. So I knew nothing about sex. My choices were either the Internet or friends. I was too paranoid about browsing history and ISPs traces and blocks etc. to even Google sex and I was too embarrassed to ask friends. So it wasn’t until I was 16 that I actually learned what sex was. I had always figured sex was just really passionate kissing and the genital stimulation was optional (oh man I sound so stupid right now). So even though I had been masturbating for a quite a while at that point I hadn’t looked at porn yet and was just going off really weird, uneducated fantasies. So I guess I’ve always been screwed up with sex stuff.” (Tim Stamp: 1:45:13)
PG: Since I was a teenager, I’ve had a porn addiction since then. And since I found out about Internet proxies and I feel like it has really screwed me up. I don’t know if this addiction caused my depression or if it just makes it worse. But it is definitely an influence in my life. It’s taking all my willpower and I’ve been porn free and haven’t masturbated since the start of February, hopefully I can keep it up. I haven’t noticed any mood changes except there’s a lot more pockets of time that I have to fill up with something else now.”
PG: Darkest secrets: “I’d go into my mom and my sister’s rooms when no one was home and try on their bras and imagine what it would feel like to undress them and have sex with them. Boy am I screwed up.”
PG: Sexual fantasies most powerful to you: “Fantasies with older women. Often time with a mother figure. Positions don’t really play a factor in the fantasies, it’s usually just the thought of having sex with my mom or sister or aunt that gets me off. I feel like a degenerate. A true disgrace and embarrassment to myself and to my family. Even though it is something I’m working on and trying to leave in the past, it’ always going to be a part of my life and I can’t out run that”
PG: What if anything do you wish for?: “To be normal or to cease existing.” Well I got news for you, there’s no normal. There is no normal. We can all wish for that. And I have for many years wished that I could be “normal” but anyway.
PG: Have you shared these things with others?: “I haven’t shared this with anyone, ever. Even if I built the confidence to talk about it with anyone, I wouldn’t really have anyone to talk to about to except my family and I just can’t imagine it going well at all.”
PG: How do you feel after writing these things down?: “It’s good to finally get it out there. It’s also good to remind myself that I’m working on it and that hopefully it can be one less glaring flaw I see in myself.”
PG: You know first of all I want to send you a fucking big warm hug. And let you know that you are okay. You are okay. And as far as… there is no sense in working on what turns us on because we’re never going to be able to reverse that. The thing that it sounds like you’re working on – which is good – is the compulsive masturbation. You know masturbation in moderation is certainly healthy and normal but it sounds like you’ve realized that the porn addiction wasn’t good for you and you’re trying to back off of that. So, dude high five. I say fucking high five.” (Time stamp 1:47:48).
PG: This is an awfulsome moment filled out by a woman who calls herself The CandleLightHelps. She writes: “I’d had a rush day and I needed to get out for some fresh air. I drove from school to a nearby mountain bike trail for a walk. About halfway through the walk, a friend who I had been avoiding, called me on my phone. I didn’t answer but just the thought of his voice instantly sent a burst of rage through my body. I started walking faster, then slow jogging, then sprinting down this trail in my school clothes. After being on the trail for an hour, I realized I Was going to be late for my first therapy session with a new therapist to treat my depression. I quickly drove to her office and got there right on time. She asked her initial questions: ‘What are you here for? Do you have any major problems that could be the source of depression?’ Then looked down at my mud covered shoes and pants and asked where I was coming from. I responded with ‘I was on a mountain bike trail a little while ago.’ She asked ‘Why?’ and without thinking I calmly responded ‘I was burying a body.’ She didn’t catch my dry sense of humor and immediately stood up to reach for the phone. Long story short, I have a new therapist.” That one might have to go in the hall of fame of awefulsome moments. Thank you for that. A good awfulsome moment always feels like Christmas for me.
PG: This is from the what has helped you survey. This is filled out by a guy whose – maybe the most bizarre name I’ve ever – Jared-Pedlecky-actually-is-a-moose – is the name – maybe that’s a reference to something but that’s the name that she used. She is 15 and her issues are depression, minor social anxiety and anorexia. She writes: “Although I am not a 60 year old lady, I enjoy knitting. Not making anything. Just straight knitting. I don’t care if I make mistakes but knitting keeps me busy. It distracts me and when I get in the zone I can knit for hours. When I’m feeling very depressed I enjoy lying next to my dog while he sleeps and just petting him and listening to him breathe. It’s very soothing.” I agree. I love curling up with my dogs or taking a nap. I love how excited my dogs get when they know I’m taking a nap. They can see I’m taking my shoes off and I get on the bed and I sit down. And they just started running around and then they kind of start fighting each other like there’s a better place on the bed. You know? Hilarious.
PG: This is from the same survey and this is by a guy who calls himself What Question. He is straight and is in his 60s and his issues are marital inequality and poor communication. What helps him is one night a week singing barbershop in a chorus of 50 men. Well thank you for sharing that. I’ve never been a huge fan of the barbershop but I appreciate how complex the harmonies are in that. I remember being in school, I think I was in third grade and for some reason fifth graders came in with us for our music class. And we were supposed to sing this song and I remember this kid who was sitting with me who was a fifth grader and he said to me ‘Ill take the melody and you take the harmony’ and I didn’t know what either of them were. I was so embarrassed. Here I am 40 something years later and still have no idea how to sing a harmony. Know what it is, but don’t know how to sing one.
PG: This is from a struggle in a sentence filled out by a kid. He’s between 10 and 15 and he calls himself Dorf-on-Coke. I’m a fan already. About his anxieties he writes: “Anxiety is staying up until 1 am when you have to be up at 5 am reading article after article about Tim Burton’s forthcoming remake of Dumbo to take your mind off the fact that you have bipolar disorder.”
PG: About compulsive behaviors he writes: “I make myself nearly late for work every morning because I take so long to masturbate in the shower.” What the fuck are you doing going to work when you’re between 10 and 15?! Although I started work when I was 15.
PG: Snapshot from his life: “I had a bipolar episode” -- I wonder if his age actually is between 10 and 15 because this snapshot from his life does not sound like he is between 10 and 15 -- He writes: “I had a bipolar episode in which the policy were called on me and I spent the rest of the weekend maniacally obsessing about Richard Nixon’s secret tapes. Listening to them obsessively for two days whole and watching documentaries about Watergate to take my mind off the guilt and started taking Lymictal (sp) and started feeling much better.” And then he asks “Are there any episodes which focus on the manic side of bipolar?” I would recommend the episode with Brody Stevens. That’s a good one. It focuses on a manic episode that he had.
PG: This is from the shame and secrets survey and it is filled out by a woman who calls herself Get Laid, Get Paid, Gatorade. She is Bi, she is 23, and was raised in an environment that was a little bit dysfunctional. Ever been the victim of sexual abuse?: She writes “Yes and I never reported it. This was a long while ago so I don’t remember everything too well, but when I was somewhere between 5 and 6 my older cousin would molest me. I know it happened for years almost every time I went to their house in a different state where my family lived. I would be playing with my younger cousins, his siblings, downstairs and he would take me upstairs, lock the door, and strip me naked. He would then get naked and put me on top of his body. I remember things happening but I don’t remember specifically.” (Time Stamp 1:53.40).
PG: She’s also been physically abused and emotionally abused. She writes: “When I was in middle school I was bullied terribly. I was called terrible names, isolated, beat up by the boys, made fun of by the girls, hit with a metal gate that possibly gave me a concussion, and I was touched sexually by one of the boys and told that if I said anything to anyone they would brutally murder my family and my pets. The girls watched as I the boys touched and molested me during class under the tables and they would call me a slut and dirty and talk about how they would never let a boy touch them like that. Later on in high school I was targeted by a man who forced himself on my sexually. After a gym class the man stole my book bag and ejaculated all over it. I’m not sure why he did it but I know he wanted me to give him a blowjob and I wouldn’t.”
PG: Any positive experiences with your abusers?: “I feel an unnatural desire for my abusers to like me and accept me as a person. I’ve just started going to therapy and talking about it but I minimize the hell out of it and somehow think it was more my fault than theirs. They didn’t do anything and I just need to get over it.” Which is so textbook by the way.
PG: Darkest thoughts?: “Killing myself”
PG: Darkest secrets?: “My childhood was an extremely sexual one and was perverse when I think about it now. Unfortunately, to try to soothe my uncomfortable feelings as a child, I began to rub and dry hump by younger male cousin. I didn’t think it was that terrible at the time because we weren’t far in age and we both liked it. But now that I’m older I see how fucked up and terrible I am and it terrifies me. He’s about 17 now and my family is concerned because he seems to be attracted to me but I am too scared and ashamed to tell them what I did and too disgusted with myself and scared to talk to him about it.” Um… so it sounds like she’s about five years older than him.
PG: Sexual fantasies most powerful to you: “I like the idea of being bitched. I like the idea of older people demeaning me sexually but I also find myself attracted to young people too. Not children, but older teens that I know are still young. With that being sad, I am extremely against the idea of anyone touching my body or pleasing me sexually. The only thing that can turn me on and get me off is watching gay male porn.” (Time stamp 1:56:04).
PG: What if anything would you like to say to someone you haven’t been able to?: “I’m so sorry.”
PG: What if anything do you wish for?: “To be done with this life. This is just too heavy to bare anymore.”
PG: Have you shared these things with others?: “Yes and No. I can’t tell it all but I’ve told some.”
PG: How do you feel after writing these things down?: “Like a piece of shit. I feel dirty, and anxious and sad. Like crying. But I won’t cry because I don’t deserve any sympathy for my actions.”
PG: Is there anything you’d like to share with someone who shares your thoughts and experiences?: “Please don’t be like me. Get help. Tell a parent, a friend, a teacher but don’t let rampant, irrational, sexual feelings and fantasies win.”
PG: Well first of all I want to send you some love and let you know that you are none of these things that you think about yourself. You were a child. You were a child and you did what most, most if not many -I don’t know if that’s the right way to phrase it. - What a lot of kids do that are being fucked with when they’re kids. They turn around and they do it to somebody else. You’re judging yourself as if the child version of you was a little adult and I hope your therapist is going to help you walk through this because you are none of these things that you tell yourself you are. You are not a piece of shit and hopefully you’re going to start to feel… You’re going to find the beauty that was always in side of you that was there before people began to hurt you. Hopefully you’ll begin got learn to trust and be vulnerable and your life will get back on track. And you’ll look back and you’ll see how much you’ve grown if you just stick with it and I hope you do. I hope you stick with it because you can change. You can absolutely change. Most importantly, how you feel about yourself.
PG: This is an awfulsome moment that I got via email. From, I don’t know how she wants me to refer to her so I wont. I’ll just call her A. Awfulsome moment. She writes: “I work in a university and use a lab a lot that had a laser cutter. There are all kinds of bits of projects hanging around. One day I was sweeping under a shelf and felt something stuck down there. I dislodged it and pulled it. It was a bright yellow piece off plastic with the following words laser cut into it: ‘The sun has got its dick out and is playing with your mom’s hair.’ I sat there staring at it overcome with my own luck. Clearly the gods of comedy had blessed me. I was marveling at what I had done to deserve this amazing and hilarious gift. I was also overcome with deciding where in my house I was going to hang it. So many options. Suddenly the door opened and a co-worker walked in. I held the yellow piece of plastic up and said excitedly, ‘This is better than Christmas.’ And he said, ‘Oh I made that.’ I said ‘you are a god of comedy.’ He said, ‘Not really, it was a quote from someone with Tourette’s.” It was part of an installation for a mental health charity about understanding about Tourette’s. Of course I immediately felt like the world’s biggest jackass finding it so funny. I took it home anyway. It’s hanging in my living room.” Thank you for sharing that.
PG: This is a struggle in a sentence and this is filled out by a woman who calls herself It’s-My-Bedtime. And she writes about her depression: “In a classroom, walking down a busy street, sitting at work, it has always felt as if every other person is in on some secrete to happiness and success and decided not to share it with me.” Boy do I relate to that one.
PG: About her anxiety: “The same feeling you get when you completely forgot to do a major assignment that is due in 10 minutes, constantly.”
PG: About her bulimia: “How fucked up is it that when I find out someone I know struggles with bulimia I feel like it’s a competition because I feel as if their bulimia might make them thinner than me. My God.”
PG: About her love addiction: “On top of world the moment I meet you. Oh you have a girlfriend? Now, I’m at rock bottom.”
PG: About her sex addiction: “Does it count that if the person I’ve been dating for four years has told me several times that he’ll never love me and all he wants is sex? That he made it clear and gave me the option to leave but I’m a sucker for him even though I know it only hurts me?” I’d say yes. I’d say yes that’s sex and love addiction.
PG: And then a snapshot from her life. She writes: “Paul you were the first one to suggest to me that I might have a love addiction and at the time I didn’t even know what that meant. I mean, I have gone my entire 23 years feeling used and words cannot express how grateful I am that you let me know that I am not just being a drama queen over a boy but that my wounds are real. I’ve seen a therapist but stopped going because I didn’t like the way she wanted me to cope with my problems by looking at shapes and describing my feelings using colors. I stopped my meds because they made me gain weight. I want so badly to go to a support group but you were right about the first thing, so you’re probably right about this thing too.” Others there’s lots of great support groups for sex addiction or love addiction or both. And I would suggest going back to a therapist who specializes in sex addiction or love addiction or both. That could be really, really helpful for you.
PG: And then finally, this is an awfulsome moment filled out by Maron (sp) and she writes: “I tried to kill myself” – this one is very bittersweet – “I tried to kill myself when I was about 5. I grew up in an abusive chaotic household” – This isn’t so much an awfulsome moment because it’s not funny to me. Maybe I should have a third survey: Happy moments, awfulsome moments, and bittersweet moments cause this one is bittersweet. Oh my god. Stop explaining. Stop. (deep breath)
PG: “I tried to kill myself when I was about 5. I grew up in an abusive chaotic household. I was on the school bus coming home and got the idea to try to choke myself with crayons. Since it seemed a preferable alternative to going home to my family. I broke the crayons in my bag into choking size pieces and pretty easily got a chunk of crayon lodged in my throat. And older kid, probably about 13 saw this, and I cannot remember what he did exactly. Heimlich maneuver or slap me on the back. It happened so fast. I just remember a jerking sensation and the crayon flying out of my mouth. He sat with me all the way to my stop and was nice to me. I think he thought the choking was an accident. I didn’t tell him it was on purpose. When we got to my stop, he carried me off the bus and over to my mom. I cried. It was the first time in my life that I ever really experienced empathy or compassion being directed at me and didn’t even realize that it was a thing.” Wow. I’ll let that one sink in. That’s like something out of a movie.
PG: Well I hope you got some comfort or entertainment or insight from our episode today. And if you’re struggling I just encourage you to just keep putting one foot in front of the other. And if all you do is get through the day, napping every other hour, so be it. I think I have slept today about 14 hours maybe. And I’m not beating myself up about. It’s where I’m at. My soul is sick or my brain is sick. It’s got the whatever you want to call mental illness – the flu – and it’s the one thing in the however many years I’ve been treating depression and axiety is to be kind to myself. I certainly don’t do it always, but I wish that for anyone out there who is being really hard on themselves. Yourselves? God, I’m so tired. Let’s wrap this fucking thing up. Anyways, I just hope you know that you’re not alone and that there is help. If you’re willing - I can’t even speak… if you’re willing to get out of your comfort zone and ask for it. Alright, thank you for listening.
(Outro Music) (2:05:24).
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