The lifelong friends join Paul to talk about supporting each other through their issues which include: alcoholism, food addiction, IBS and codependency.
To take the anonymous survey to help our advertisers get to know you better (and it really helps them to decide to advertise on the podcast) go to www.podsurvey.com/mentalpod You can enter to win a $100 Amazon Gift Card.
Episode notes:
To take the anonymous survey to help our advertisers get to know you better (and it really helps them to decide to advertise on the podcast) go to www.podsurvey.com/mentalpod You can enter to win a $100 Amazon Gift Card.
Episode Transcript:
Welcome to episode 229 with my guests, Kim and Sheila. I’m Paul Gilmartin; this is the Mental Illness Happy Hour, a place for honesty about all the battles in our heads, from medically diagnosed conditions, past traumas, and sexual dysfunction, to everyday, compulsive negative thinking. This show’s not meant to be a substitute for professional mental counseling; I’m not a doctor; I’m not a therapist; this is more like a waiting room that doesn’t suck. The website for the show is mentalpod.com, and while I’m thinking of it, we have a survey, that I would love for you guys to take. It only takes 5 minutes, it’s completely anonymous, and it’s different than the surveys that I, where I read your responses on the show. This is one to help our advertisers, potential advertisers, get to know what your interests are, and like I said, completely anonymous, it’ll take you 5 minutes, and when you’re finished, you can enter a monthly drawing and win a $100 Amazon gift card. And obviously, your email address for that would not be used to give to advertisers; we just use that in house to let you know you won a gift card. The URL for to take the survey is podsurvey.com/mentalpod. I’ll put it up on the website, underneath this episode on the show notes so you can just go there, click on it if you forget. But it really helps us connect with advertisers and um… make sure that it’s a good match so they continue to advertise with us, and that helps keep the show free. So… please do it. Again, podsurvey.com/mentalpod.
On a more serious note, I saw something today that really, really, disturbed me. And I don’t know if you guys (..) It’s been in the news a little bit, but um… Pizza Hut now has a crust that is filled with hot dogs. I see a lot of stuff, hear a lot of stuff, doing this show. We had a survey filled out by a woman who, when she was a child, she was molested by a guy who had a hook for a hand. Had people blowing their dogs. I gotta say… a pizza crust filled with hot dogs, is right up there! I can’t get it out of my head!
You know what bothers me? Here’s… here’s the other events that I’ve described-HORRIBLE! HORRIBLE! But they weren’t ringed with sausages. There is something about a corporation putting animal flesh into geometric shapes that just doesn’t sit right with me. And I think the part that bothers me the most, if I tried it, I would probably love it.
I think I need to fill out a survey.
This is a Struggle in a Sentence survey, and this was filled out by a guy who calls himself Tom G. And snapshot from his life, he writes, “When I go to a concert, I feel like I’m the one on stage. The whole crowd behind me is watching me, not the show. If I’m not dancing, they’re thinking I’m lame. If I am, they think I look like an idiot.”
This was filled out by a woman who calls herself Schmidt. And about her depression she writes, “Drowning, and dragging down every lifeguard.” About her anxiety, she writes, “My mind is fine, but my body is preparing for war.” Snapshot from her life, “Starting the day hunched over, throwing up on my feet in the shower from the sick black feeling in my stomach.”
This was filled out by a woman who calls herself Short Circuit. About her anxiety, she writes, “I feel like my brain is a circuit board that someone poured water on.” About having OCD, she writes, “If my house isn’t clean, it reflects how I fail to care for my loved ones.”
Aurora Flora writes, about her depression, “All the colors, flavors, music and beauty have been stolen from me.” About her anorexia, “It is fucked up when feeling your body starve itself feels just as satisfying as a good healthy meal used to feel.” About her love addiction, she writes, “I’m an empty container with holes in the bottom and no matter how much I beg to be filled, I am always being drained.” About being a sex addict, she writes, “I need to be fucked into oblivion, until every piece of me is destroyed and unrecognizable.” About her codependency, she writes, “You make me make you hate me. But don’t worry, I’ll fix it.” About her PTSD, “Little pieces of my brain have been turned into well-hidden land mines.” And about being a sex crime victim, she writes, “If I tell myself over and over again, that I said ‘yes’, my brain will forget the ‘no.’”
*intro music*
I’m here with listeners Sheila and Kim. And their friend Alexandra, is chilling out in a recliner. She’s off mic. But Sheila and Kim, uh… you contacted me a while back, and you said you were going to be visiting Los Angeles.
And I had read a survey of yours, I’m sure the regular listeners remember it. Do you want to describe, Sheila-
Sheila: Sure.
Paul: -what you filled out? It was an awfulsome moment.
Sheila: Yeah. Well it was an awesome moment, to hear you read it. Because I was driving in my car, back from, back from tutoring, and it was a long drive. And I love your podcast, and it kinda gets me from point A to point B with my commuting. And when you read my name, FU_IBS, I literally started pounding the steering wheel like, “YES! This is mine! This is mine!”
Paul: Because you have IBS.
Sheila: Yeah, yeah, it’s an F-you to my irritable bowel syndrome, right. So um… I guess the long and short version is, um.. I suffer from really, really debilitating irritable bowel syndrome. And I can either be constipated for 2 weeks or um… have diarrhea 7-10 times a day, sometimes without my control. And this was one of the constipation bouts. So one of the ways I facilitate a bowel movement when I’m constipated is to go for a really fast run. And I was running, and… I had to go. And when you’re backed up for 2 weeks, you really don’t care.
Paul: Oh I’ve been there, I’ve been there.
Sheila: It’s shameless. So I found what seemed to be the most covert area to go. And immediately dropped trou, and oh, it was sweet relief, it was awesome until the security light went on. And… the family was standing there behind…
*laughter*
-behind the glass window. It was like, you know, really like, um… photogenic family. And they just looked like I was the anti-Christ. And uh.. yeah..
Paul: And you couldn’t stop the glory at that moment.
Sheila: NO! Hell no! You gotta let that shit out!
Paul: It’s like trying to take food away from a starving person at that point. You’re like, “I’ve been dreaming of this moment for 2 weeks.”
Sheila: I don’t care; I didn’t care if I got arrested, I’d be like, “At least I’m comfortable.” So um… he asked me, umm… the father, presumable the father, um… if I was some kind of animal... And I actually, I am, humans are animals. Yeah, so I finished up the uh… the shittin’ and I pulled up my pants, and um… I barked twice, and said, “Good day to you sir.” And sprinted back to my aunt’s house. And never to be found. But I did not, unlike you, Paul, revisit the site of the incident, which I should have done, but they have a face association, so I was trying to fly under the radar.
Paul: Yeah, if I’d have been spotted I would have not gone back and revisited, but I had to revisit because mine was in pitch black and it felt glorious.
Sheila: It is.
Paul: It felt like a masterpiece.
Sheila: It is!
Paul: It truly… was yours a dental chair, did you get lifted off the ground by yours?
Sheila: Um… no… no, but I um… I have perfected how to… how to do it to get torque-age… even when I’m (..)
*laughter*
Paul: How many people have turned off the podcast right now?
Sheila: 50 percent, probably.
Paul: But go ahead, torque-age?
Sheila. Torque-age, yeah, you know… You get the… the resistance and the force. I got it, I got it down, we don’t need anymore details.
Paul: We don’t. I think we’ve hit our poo quota for the entire episode. Although I do want to talk about living with a medical condition that taxes your emotions and your mental state. Because I get emails from listeners that are like, “When are you going to do episodes about people who live with debilitating or mentally fatiguing health issues?” And so, let’s talk about, what it does to you emotionally and physically, dealing with this. How long have you lived with it?
Sheila: Um… it’s at its (…)
Paul: And by the way, I’m going to need to have your asshole sign a waiver.
Sheila: Sure. I’ll have to clench it, and I’ll just hope it’s with one of those calligraphy pens, because I take that seriously. Um… I’ve had it probably, the way I gauge it, is, I just remember when I lived with my first boyfriend, he always had to keep the door open when I went for a run. Because he knew that as soon as I came in, it was going to be a literal shitstorm. So, but I didn’t get the severe stabbing, debilitating pains in my early 20s. That was my early 20s. And um… I would say about 3 or 4 years ago-
Paul: And you’re how old?
Sheila: I’m 33.
Paul: OK.
Sheila: Yeah. No, aw god! Yeah, I guess it’d be 3 or 4 years ago. I got an infection that is pretty elusive, it’s called C.diff, and it wreaks havoc.
Paul: How do you spell that?
Sheila: Well it’s short for (..) It’s Latin; I wouldn’t even be able to say it. It’s C-D-I-F-F.
Paul: Oh, C. diff. I’m just giving a little love to our transcribers.
Sheila: Oh sure. I was teaching full-time, which you can imagine was interesting, because I was also, I had explosive diarrhea 7-10 times a day, and I was in 5 different classrooms –
Paul: Jesus Christ!
Sheila: Teaching, expected to get to the class within time, you know, within 3-5 minutes, and also to have everything prepared on the board. And um… there were no um… there were no teachers’ restrooms, many of the times.
Paul: WHAT?
Sheila: Yeah… So… uh… a lot of my students uh… bore witness… to it.
Paul: Aww…
Sheila: Which just added insult to injury. It was an inner city school. So it got around pretty quickly, and kids would laugh at me, and what can you do? You know? So that (..)
Paul: What did that feel like?
Sheila: Um… *sigh* That part didn’t bother me. Being teased doesn’t really bother me. Just more, I was really in a state then where I was just trying to keep one foot forward in teaching, it was really rough in a city school. They throw a lot at you, even though I was a fairly seasoned teacher when I got in. Being a new teacher there, they throw a lot at you that they wouldn’t throw at the older, tenured teachers. So I just was doing my best to be perfect. And you can’t be perfect as a teacher because you have 150 variables, which are called students. So it was more, I just focused on the job and um…
Paul: Did it inflame your condition? Because it is nerve related, right?
Sheila: Oh yeah, it exacerbated it. So that’s probably the real turning point, when it got pretty bad and I was waking up in hot sweats and I went to a gastroenterologist, and she didn’t really help me, um… and I eventually through my husband’s wonderful unwavering, unconditional support, was convinced, “You can’t do this anymore.” I also consider myself an alcoholic. So I was also numbing the pain and the stress as soon as I would get home after I had done my work at school. I would start to prepare for the next day. But preparing for the next day meant I immediately poured myself the vodka-tonics, um… got on the keyboard, and then did, you know, 2-3 hours of prep, however many, 2 or 3 big vodka-tonics, then we sat down, watched jeopardy, wine… like Lean Cuisine Pizza, bed. And I was doing this for a year, 2 years, and um…
Paul: And I can’t imagine that kind of diet and the alcohol helped.
Sheila: No, and that’s a big thing I’m going through right now, it’s that (..) and very recently, I’ve been working very close with my psychiatrist, and we’ve been trying to manage my alcohol intake, and other variables that will exacerbate the IBS, and um… well… some things took a turn and um… more actively pursuing it, Kim, I would say? More just, in terms of reduction and lifestyle, and it’s been a hard couple months.
Kim: She has been extremely diligent, and she has a great psychiatrist that sends emails, and requests that she reports all sorts of data, and just keeps a daily log of everything-what are the variables? What are the drugs you’re taking? But she’s off coffee, she’s significantly reduced her alcohol (..)
Sheila: Had to cut back on sleep, which is hard, because I can’t take any pain killers, because they’ll tear apart my stomach. So sleep, I’ve always been a sleeper since I was a little girl, and sleep is my salvation. It’s my, you know… *unintelligible* from the pain, but he says, “You know, it’s not good for your mental health to sleep more than 9 ½ hours.” So I have to get myself up, even if I’m in pain. But the pain usually doesn’t set until late afternoon, early evening, as evidenced by last night’s… breakdown.
Kim:Yeah.
Paul: What happened last night? And Kim is kinda here for support, are we more here for Sheila’s story, or do we want to get Kim’s story?
Sheila: Naw… Kim has a story that is… that is well worth sharing. And that I think your listeners would definitely benefit from.
Paul: Well, let’s put yours on hold, just for a second, and we’ll get back to what happened last night, and Kim, tell us about yourself. And you are coming, Sheila, you’re visiting from upstate New York, and Kim, you live in New York City. And Alexandra lives here in Los Angeles, and you’re visiting her here.
Sheila: Yeah. Alex used to live in upstate, and that’s how we met. We grew up together. We worked our first jobs together.
Paul: How long have you all known each other then?
Sheila: Kim and I have been best friends since 2nd grade, and I’ve known Alex since she was 17, and you’re 31 now, Alex?
Paul: OK-so Kim, let’s talk about you.
Kim: OK… so I grew up in upstate New York. I need questions, I don’t really know where to…
Paul: What are the issues that you struggle with the most?
Kim: Let’s see, I struggle a lot with body image, and with my weight. And probably like 90% of females, I can fluctuate 100 pounds in my adult life, literally. So a lot of eating stuff. Um.. I also had a major depression, it was a 6-month episode; that was pretty bad. It was a long time ago. That was when I studied abroad, in like 2001. And I think since that happened, I’ve really, I’ve really, it’s helped me realize that I need to be more open in communication and reach out to people. I’m the quintessential people pleaser. Umm…
Sheila: I used to call her a magnet for social degenerates.
*laughter*
Sheila: And then I realized that, “Oh wow, this really is a problem, because…”
Kim: I take on everyone’ stuff-
Sheila: She takes on everyone, she is, she and my husband are the most selfless people I’ve ever met. She will put herself last, always.
Kim: I’ve been in therapy about this too. And that in itself is in addiction-why do you feel you need to help and you need to save? And what are you getting from it, right?
Paul: I think there’s a difference, too, between being selfless, and doing something because you’re afraid you’re a bad person if you don’t do it, or you need to lose yourself in those other people so you don’t think about yourself, you know. I think there’s good selfishness and there’s bad selfishness, or selflessness. Either one, and um…yeah, it’s that difficult fine line, between, “Am I giving from a place of abundance, or am I draining myself because I’m afraid to not bend over backwards for this person?”
Kim: Yeah-and the boundaries; clear need to set boundaries and relationships, there’s codependence. I think it was one of your listeners that says, “Tell me how you are and I’ll tell you how I am.”
Paul: That one just nailed it. What was your home life like growing up? Was there alcoholism or addiction in your family?
Kim: No, no there was certainly mental illness, no substance abuse. My mother’s bipolar; she had 2 major psychotic breakdowns. My sister is now diagnosed with Bipolar 2, but really that just manifests itself-I mean we didn’t know what it was (…) I was telling them, I mean she would be a perfect candidate for like teenage boot camp. She was probably Borderline Personality Disorder. My therapists would say she was the ultimate bully to me-
Sheila: She still is, to a certain extent .
Kim: She is, I mean she is a case of arrested development now. She lives with my parents. They wait on her hand and foot. And she’s just so needy and so childish and infantile and can be manipulative.
Paul: Difficulty with impulse control?
Kim: Um.. difficulty with impulse control, I think as it pertains to food.
Paul: I was thinking more in terms of how she expresses her, like (..) she just explodes at people, she doesn’t know how to censor herself.
Kim: Yes.
Paul: Or sit on her feelings.
Kim: A lot of rage, yup. And she just went through a million identity crises growing up.
Paul: Did she have an abandoning childhood? A lot of people that live with the borderline personality disorder or the characteristics of it, I’ve read, have usually come from severe uh… abandonment issue, and that’s really kind of at the core.
Kim: It’s the opposite. See, opposite, I mean, my parents are pretty giving, pretty loving. All 3, I have an older brother, in society’s terms, very stable, very normal, 2 kids, suburban life. We’re all quite different.
Paul: No, I mean your mom.
Kim: Oh, I’m sorry –
Paul: Your mom’s childhood.
Kim: My mother’s childhood abandonment- no… um… she had, she comes from an Italian family, her father was kind of like a war hero, kind of a war hero, he got a Purple Heart, you know, he’s very much of the generation, you know, “Children should be seen and not heard,” type.
Paul: That was SO common for that generation, it was…
Kim: Yeah… so I think he was withholding in his love. Um… you know, and he’s the same grandfather who used to call me fatso when I was 3, and I remember…
Paul: REALLY?
Kim: And I remember no one sticking up for me, and I used to go into a room and cry, but I wanted to make sure he didn’t see, because I didn’t want to make him feel bad.
Paul: Wow-you are a caretaker at 3!
Kim: Isn’t that weird? And that’s when I first had body issues (..) I was very aware of my body at 3 and 4.
Paul: Wow…
Kim: Yeah.
Paul: So how’s the food issue today?
Kim: Uh… it’s a struggle every day. I mean right now, I lost 50 pounds recently, and I’ve put on 30, and I’ve lost another 10 now. It’s never ending.
Paul: So it’s a see-saw, it’s a see-saw. I just want to paint a picture for the listener. It’s so beautiful. It’s the 3 of them-while one of them is talking, the other one will reach over and hold their hand, and um… it’s just so touching to see that kind of support among friends, ‘cause I know there’s a lot of people that don’t have those kind of friends in their lives or support network, and boy it just makes it so much difficult.
Kim: We have just been through so many things together.
Sheila: So much.
Kim: Yeah, I wouldn’t… I wouldn’t be here if it wasn’t for her. LITERALLY.
Paul: Talk some more about that.
Kim: *sigh* She, my husband, and my parents are the reason I stick around.
Paul: Is it that you know you can get through it with them, or you don’t want to kill yourself, because you don’t want to hurt them?
Kim: It’s the latter. Um…
Paul: It’s always nice when we get to the most tender moments that you can hear the carpet cleaners outside.
Kim: Sounds *unintelligible*
Paul: I hope they loudly start telling knock-knock jokes.
*laughter*
Kim: Um… I just kinda came to realization during one of my recent bouts with depression, um… (…) it was dark, really dark, I just said, “I don’t wanna be… What is the point of being if it is to suffer?” It just seemed absolutely pointless and I got to a point where I was just very rational about it , and, and, it was very (..) I felt so bad for the people around me, but I didn’t really, fell as bad as I should have. I was just resigned to the fact that… there was some biological imperative, that it’s time for me to move on. Um…
And I was in bed with my husband, and, I was just talking about that, and he’s a… he struggled with mental illness himself, and he’s come out of it on the other end, incredibly strong, um… and I just listen to him speak a little bit, and I realized I (..) I’ve made the decision, I’m not having children. But I made a decision to him, to marry him, and that was a promise. And that’s a promise I gotta keep, I promised him for better or for worse, in sickness and health, and if I don’t, even if I don’t want to be around, he wants me around. So I have to do it.
The pain’s hard. It got worse with the pain.
Paul: The physical pain?
Kim:Yeah. *sigh*
But back to Kim.
*chuckles*
Sheila: Um… so yeah. She’s (…) she’s the (..) she’s just one of the best things that ever happened to me.
Paul: What does it feel like to hear her say that?
Kim: Like I’m not worthy of it. I mean, it’s nice and I’m (..)
Paul: ‘Cause you’re not worthy, and she’s a crybaby. I mean, let me just put into perspective here.
Sheila: (unintelligible)
Paul: I think we’re done here; I’m gonna go drink with the carpet cleaners.
*laughter*
Paul: Getting back to… you can’t… you can’t see the (..) the beauty that you (…)
Sheila: She can’t see her own beauty. She-everyone loves Kim. She, everyone loves Kim. If you don’t like Kim, then you’re a misanthrope. And she can’t, she doesn’t see what the world sees. So it’s natural that she would feel unworthy, and I’m speaking for you as I do too much.
Kim: It’s so… we’re best friends, and we’re so different, but we complement each other so well. I’m so unassertive, I’m gregarious and I’m loud, and all of those things-
Sheila: Hysterical.
Kim: And my job warrants me to be a certain way, and um… but, and Sheila’s just SO assertive and she can articulate her emotions so well. And even her relationship with her parents, there’s so much that I envy, and that I think is just so beautiful and that I wish for myself, and I see in her. It’s… it’s beautiful.
Paul: It’s kinda like you guys are yin and yang… It’s like, the other one has the (..)
Kim: Yeah… even in temperature. I’m always-they call me a furnace, I’m so hot, I’m constantly pit-stained and sweaty, and she’s always freezing to the marrow. You know?
Sheila: Yeah.
Kim: Physically-she’s waiflike, I’m not. You know… just, everything is so opposite but it works so well together. And we’ve grown up together, I mean, our humor has developed-
Sheila: We speak our own language.
Paul: Talk about the struggle with setting boundaries that you have. Give me an example of a situation where you knew you should be standing up for yourself, and you couldn’t. Walk me through.
Kim: We could do the house guest from hell, we could do all my relationships…
Sheila: Um… what about (…) I think one good moment is the (..) you being literally worried about the time when you were with Jason to run errands and also about having to lie when you visited me.
Kim:Yep. So I was in a relationship that was pretty damaging. Definitely emotional abusive; I didn’t see it that way at the time. Not physically, but I was with someone, I always say he would be a great cult leader, you know? He was good-looking, he was funny, he spoke a bunch of languages, he was gregarious, we quickly moved in together, and he isolated me. I have to travel a lot from my work, and he had to make it very clear that when I traveled, I was not to extend those trips and see friends, which I like to do. I’m on the company dollar, let’s see who we know in the area. And I would end up lying to him about my schedule, about when I was with friends, he would time me, when I would leave. And one time I was just trying to run errands and I was just crying in the middle of Marshalls ‘cause I didn’t have enough time to get back.
Sheila: I think it was TJ Maxx.
*chuckles*
Kim: Sorry, yes, you’re right. AJ Wright. And it was in the middle of a blizzard, I had to go out to get episodes of Curb Your Enthusiasm for him, because it was the only thing I knew that would calm him. I’m like, it’s going to be a much more peaceful night if he can just relax with Curb, and he ran out of episodes, and I drove through a blizzard like (unintelligible)
Paul: And what was the (…) Describe the feeling in your body.
Kim: Well…
Paul: While all of this stuff is happening?
Kim: Oh-it’s just um… it’s just anxiety, it’s like actual heat and burning.
Paul: Like in your chest?
Kim: In my chest, yeah, it’s very visceral. And he would just yell and yell at me, just scream at me at night. Call me horrible things…
Paul: When you would be out running these errands looking at your watch, what would be the things you would be anticipating when you would get home?
Kim: His anger. I mean, I grew up in a house, no one yelled. That’s not healthy either; no one talked about their feelings, but no one yelled. And his yelling is just scary and you just think at any point this is going to escalate, and he has such a sharp tongue, and I just didn’t want to be verbally attacked and basically assaulted.
Paul: And so what was the fear of saying, ‘This isn’t working,’? What would pop in your head when one voice would say, ‘This is abuse, and you should leave.’ I’m assuming there was a voice in your head (..)
Kim: Oh absolutely, and we’d had different sort of false breakups and this and that, and one day it was just too much and I said, ‘That’s it, we’re done.’ Um…
Paul: And did you leave?
Kim: Well, it was in my overpriced apartment, and he had financial issues, and I had a stable job, and he was actually on the lease, so we lived together for 2 months, while he was seeing other people, and sleeping on like an air mattress; it was great.
Paul: And Sheila, what were you saying to her during this time?
Sheila: Get that fucker out of your house! Get him out now!
Paul: And what would she say to you? ‘But he doesn’t have a place to go to.’
Sheila: ‘He’s on the lease, no it’s alright. I can manage; it’s not-we don’t even have to interact that much anymore.’ And that (…) Get him out! He’s not paying! He’s not paying you! Get him out! You can just… get him out. He’s going, he’s a bomb waiting to explode. I don’t feel safe with him in your house.
Paul: Kim, was there a part of you that was afraid of being alone?
Kim: Yeah, oh absolutely. And then after that, I still basically stalked him. I mean, I didn’t –
Paul: Wow!
Kim: Yeah, full-blown, definitely afraid to be alone. I’ve jumped in and out of relationships since I was probably 12, you think?
Sheila: Yeah, 12. You’ve never really (..) How long have you been(..)
Kim: I had a 9-month stint alone that I’m very proud of. (unintelligible)
Paul: What was that like?
Kim: It was really hard, man. It was really hard. I was alone in New York City. Living by myself, and I didn’t have this relationship as a crutch. I had put on a lot of weight in the relationship, and he was a chef ,and there was all sorts of (…) You could do a podcast per relationship. But uh… I had to (..) It was really scary, and I had to force myself (…) I was in therapy, and then I did OA, and I just… it’s just like putting one foot in front of the other. And I remember being so jealous and miserable, like looking at other couples. I hated the thoughts I had. “You know you guys are just settling, but you get ALL the benefits and the companionship and this and that, but you know you’re not right for each other and you shouldn’t be together.” And that was a lot of (..) Even in my friends’, you know, present company excluded, I would see these relationships that are just shams, and I’m like, “I get out of mine. I may get into bad ones, but at least I know how to get out!” And I didn’t think it was fair that they… you know?
Paul: Describe the physical and mental-if agony isn’t too strong of a word-the discomfort of not being in a relationship. What would you think and feel? Aside from the moments when you were on your soapbox about other people’s relationships?
Kim: Yeah. I would feel (..) I just didn’t feel validated; I didn’t feel worthy; I would use (..) as awful as these men were they certainly would build me up as much as they would tear me down. And I really needed to hear that.
Paul: That’s how we get away with it.
Kim: Yeah, I really needed to hear all those things. And there’s something different when it comes from friends versus your partner, your lover. It just feels dif
Paul: What feels different?
Kim: Um.. it’s more important to me; it shouldn’t be.
Paul: The praise, you mean, the building up?
Kim: The praise, the praise. Yeah.
Paul: Let’s-
Sheila: I think that the reason why, or at least a portion of the reason why she bets more stock in the praise from a partner is because of your body issues. And (…) when you said the word “validated.” You feel validated, and you feel safe, and you feel comfortable. And you feel better about yourself because you know that someone is (..) I mean, when Kim’s in these relationships, these people are terrible but they worship the ground she walks on. As they should! But it comes with the flip side-and I just (…) I think that, that was what was hard, probably, for you to be alone for 9 months because you weren’t getting the validation that you’re physically beautiful.
Paul: Give us a sample of the mean talk in your head about yourself physically? I’m assuming there is.
Kim: No, absolutely, there is. I’m extremely self-critical, and it goes back, I mean it really, I still, in my head, feel like a child. I’m the 5 year-old looking in the mirror every year at my dance recital, crying uncontrollably that my thighs are fat. And I remember, I have all these memories, of crying about how fat I look in my costume, running to the doctor at 5 years old, saying, “Doctor, I’m fat; I’m fat!” Um… and just being really obsessive from a young age. And unfortunately, I do not remember any words of comfort or anyone being my advocate.
Sheila: Because you didn’t have any advocates.
Kim: Yeah. Um… And you know, I think in my head it’s, and then you go on to adolescence, which is just pure hell as a teenage girl. And I just um… yeah, the self-talk is just very negative. It focuses on body parts, and it’s just the idea that, I mean this is just a rat race, I can get control of all these other things in my life. I can have a successful, high-paying job. I can do this and that, but I can’t manage the weight and the eating. And that’s, you know, and in my head, that feels like a failure. This is what you’re putting out to the world. When shit gets bad, people know it, physically, when they see you.
Paul: Why I always feel for people that have eating disorders or eating issues is because (..) I say, if I were an alcoholic and I had to carry all my empties around with me, thank God I never had to do that! I could hide my lack of control from other people. Um… What do you, when you abuse food, describe for me, the feeling before you abuse food, while you’re abusing food, and after you abuse food.
Kim: Before, it’s um… it’s very anxious. Um..
Paul: General or about specific things?
Kim: It could be either; it could be either. It could be general, like even the minute that I’m alone (..) I’m much better about this now, but before, it’d be like, the minute I’m alone, I would equate loneliness, being alone, with loneliness. And it’s sort of that restlessness and that, just some sort of a pit that needs to be filled. Um… and there’d be anxiety around it, and then, “Should I? Shouldn’t I?” I think it was one of your listeners that said, “I call for delivery and then I hang up and then I call back.” I mean, I really do that. I’ve had to delete the Seamless App and then, fuck, I put it back on, I mean, it’s crazy-making. Um..
Paul: Thank every ad *unintelligible* listening right now, going, “Oh yeah! Oh yeah!”
Kim: Yup, and you can’t even enjoy yourself, “OK so we’re going to really set up the moment so when the food comes I’ve go the perfect show going, you know, the perfect episode of whatever. But you can never get into it because you’re so focused on the food and that feeling, and not only is it delicious, but there is something that is filling inside you, it’s very gratifying and soothing.
Paul: And I imagine it probably releases a shitload of dopamine if that’s your (..)
Kim: They’ve done studies that say it’s not that unlike a coke addict when they really study brain chemistry. You know? And I believe that. Um..
Paul: Yeah, there are people. My wife was describing somebody she knows who abuses food and she said, after this person binged on all this junk food, their eyes were glazed over like they were high. Their pupils were huge, and they just had this smile like they had just orgasmed.
*chuckles*
Kim: Were they eating in bed or no?
Paul: No. No.
Kim: Separate activites.
Paul: Yeah, separate activities, but um…
Kim: And then the guilt and shame afterward is just the self-loathing and then the physical evidence and the remnants of everything, and just that feeling of, “God I really have no self control, and (..)”
Paul: I remember this moment, the last 6 months, actually, before I quit drinking, and I would be having that 6th and 7th pint of beer. One of my favorites was a Guinness, or Boddington’s had this can that, I think it had like a little bit of nitrous in it, so the foam was really good.
Kim: Yellow can?
Paul: Yeah, yeah! And I remember trying to hide my empties so when I would finish one, I would go to the sink and I would crunch it as quietly as possible so my wife wouldn’t hear. Even though she never gave me a hard time about my drinking, only once, she said to me, I think, “I’m only gonna say this once, but I think you have a drinking problem.” Um… but I didn’t want it to be an issue. I didn’t want her to notice, so I would crush these cans, and I would fill the little recycling thing with them, and hide them. And then I remember, I had this moment and I’d never even thought about how sick that was, until, then I got sober, then I was abusing caffeine. And I was drinking those Starbucks shots, you know what I mean? Those little cans. And I went to go crush one in front of the sink, and I was like, “Oh my God! I’m not doing that with alcohol anymore!” You know? Yeah, I’m, I wasn’t trying to hide it, you know what I mean? It’s weird when we have those moments where we can look back and go, “Oh I guess I have progressed a little bit in the right direction!” And you feel kind of sad for your person that you, that you were 6 months ago, or a year ago, and it’s like you want to get into a time machine and go hug them. And say, “It doesn’t have to be like this.”
Sheila: I was saying to Kim-
Paul: Move a little closer, would you?
Sheila: I was saying to Kim, and I don’t know if it was today or yesterday, um… well, I think I had mentioned this, how I’m on this alcohol reduction plan. I’m not ready to give up. Um… it just, I can’t.
Paul: Is the plan to eventually give it up?
Sheila: No, I can’t say that. Because if I say that, then I can’t keep making progress. I just (…) I can’t say that yet. I can’t commit to that. Um… but I’m working hard to reduce. I’ve (..) well… back in my teaching days, I’d probably cut it down-what?
Kim: Mind you, she’s drinking less than the average American. I mean it’s-
Sheila: Well, I don’t know.
Kim: You’ve cut your alcohol a lot. I mean, I don’t know if you’re comfortable saying what it (..)
Sheila: Well yes. So my doctor had me, I mean, I wouldn’t count it before. And so um… my psychiatrist initially, we were talking about reducing it, and um… so it would be just two glasses of wine during the week, and up to 5 on the weekends. Which was a reduction for me.
Paul: Five total over the weekend?
Sheila: No no no. Five per night. Yeah. Um… because, you know, before, my teaching days, it was double digits. You know? And as I’ve been progressing, and I measure. I have to measure. I use a measuring glass, and then I pour it into a mason jar so it looks a little more aestheticallit’y pleasing and a little less…
Less clinical.
Paul: You didn’t want to use a beaker?
Sheila: Naw, I didn’t want to use a beaker. No. I didn’t. I’d kicked around the idea a bit, but um… I, you know… I was beaker’d out from Breaking Bad. Um… so… I was just talking to Kim about how now that I’m even more fastidious with reducing it, how I would just months ago, not count my drinks, in my area there’s several liquor stores where they do free wine-tastings. And I love free wine tastings! Because it’s just a wine tasting!
Paul: Sure, it’s classy!
Sheila: And it’s classy, and I’m chatting, and it’s just lovely and so, “Oh yeah! Wait a minute now-I didn’t get the complete flavor of that one. Can I get a little bit more? OK, Oh yes, that’s great. Maybe I’ll get a bottle of that.” Then go back and buy my boxed wine. Um… and so I would be hitting up, I realize, I actually had a trajectory. From my last tutoring session, after I was done working, go to that one, then you can go to that one, and then the (..) then, by the time you have a little bit of a buzz, you’ll be close to home and then the third one. And those didn’t count as (..) But who knows? But I don’t, and because of my IBS, there’s not a lot in there to absorb it. But I totally convinced myself-those don’t count. Those don’t count. And then when I go out, “Oh, I need to try what that (..)” and I do, I am a wine snob, but “I need to try what that tastes like.” And those tastes don’t count. Sometimes they’re very generous tastings.
Paul: Yeah!
Sheila: And I’m just now (..) I don’t know how long it’s been. Remembering what it’s like to wake up without a hangover. And I hate to even say that out loud. Because I don’t know if I can continue with this progress, I don’t know if I’ll have a backslide. I don’t know if I’ll be back to waking up with hangovers. But I know I like not waking up with one.
Paul: You know, my thought is, if you are an alcoholic, there is no control without help. Without support groups, um…
Sheila: That’s another thing that I wanted to touch upon.
Paul: Yeah, that’s the only thing that has worked for me because my brain did that exact same thing where it would come up with a reason why tonight was the last night I was gonna drink and tomorrow I was gonna quit. And I actually believed that until about a year and a half of those nights piled up every single night. And I woke up in the morning, and once again, my first three thoughts where, “You slept too late,” “You’re a lazy piece of shit,” and “Your life is passing you by.” The only thing I had to look forward to was getting loaded, and I knew that was the thing that was driving me closer to suicide, and I just said out loud, “God help me; I can’t do this anymore.” And that was the day I decided to get help. And that’s what had to happen for me, and I can just tell you that a lot of people I know that struggle with drugs and alcohol, they, we, have gone through the exact same thing that you’re going through. But I think we have to go through that. I think we have to go through that um.. those periods of trying to do controlled drinking, and failing. Um..
Sheila: So, I have been, or had been seeking support groups for two, three years. And I was amazed at how difficult it was to find a support group for people with mental illness. I didn’t want to go to AA; I’m not ready to go to AA. Because I’m not ready to commit to a life that’s pursuing abstinence. When I do something, I do it, and I know that I can’t do it yet. So I’m not doing it. I’m doing what I can do. But I know the value of support groups, and I’ve put so much time and energy trying to find a support group for someone with mental illness, ‘cause I’ve suffered with it since I was a child. And there was nothing. I had flow charts that I had written down of people who’d give me numbers, “Oh, call this person.” “Oh no no no, call THIS person.” I’ve been through NAMI, I’ve been through the wringer.
Paul: And NAMI is National Alliance on Mental Illness. And their website is nami.org, and they have support group meetings not only for people with mental illness, but also support groups for people who have loved ones that have mental illness.
Sheila: And that was exactly what I was finding a plethora of, is support groups for for family members of people with addiction or mental illness issues. But not support groups for the actual individual dealing with the affliction. So I started, I got very frustrated, and I stopped, and I put it on hiatus, and I started u again. And this was about a month ago, because this is what precipitated that. And I found one, and it was dual recovery. And it said, this is for people who struggle with illness and also addiction issues. So I called, and I spoke to the woman who was going to, ostensibly, be the facilitator, and I said, “I only, my only reservation is that I’m not abstaining currently. I’m not sober.” She said, “It’s just a desire to want to get healthier.” And I said, “Well, I absolutely have that.” So I was like, “I just killed two birds with one stone! I finally hit the jackpot!” So I go to the meeting, and to make a long story short, I go up to the security guard and I say, “Could you tell me where the dual recovery meeting is?” And he was like, “Uh…I’m not really… If it’s anywhere, it’s going to be down here, but I’m not sure if anyone’s even here yet.” I said, “OK, so there?” And so I walked into this dusty, mildewy room that had a long, like boardroom table, and I was just sitting there by myself, and this woman comes in, who has multiple oversized layers on, like a Huxtable (sp?) sweater, like you know, from the Cosby show? And a..
Paul: Was she dancing?
Sheila: No, because she had physical ailments. Um.. but she probably, the second woman, may have danced at one point. And she had on multiple hats, and she said, “Oh hi! How are you?” And I said, “Hi, How are you?” She introduced herself, I said, “Hi, I’m Sheila.” And she said, “OK-so are you going to be facilitating?” I said, “I’m sorry?” And she said, “Oh…” I said, “No, I was waiting (..)” I don’t’ even, I, say her name’s Liz, I forgot. She goes, “Oh no! See, Liz called me. She said she’s not coming because of the snow.” So the facilitator for this meeting wasn’t attending. So this woman proceeds to take out a dingy binder and just start reading through this binder. And it’s just she and I, and then this other woman comes in and she kinda storms in and she looks at me, she goes, “WHO ARE YOU?” And I said, “Hello. I’m Sheila.” She goes, “No, but who ARE you?” I said, “I’m Sheila.” She says, “Are you here to facilitate this or what?” I said, “No. I’m a participant. This is my first time here.” She says, “OK, it’s very nice to meet you!” And then she quickly went to the back of the room. At which point she started to ruffle manically through myriad bags, and then the woman across from me said to her, she said, “I’m sorry, your perfume is just a little strong, I just have a sensitive nose.” And she took out a medical mask. So the one woman took out a medical mask, and then the other woman goes, “Well, I have a mask, too. It’s a mask to criticism!” And then she takes out a surgical mask.
Paul: Oh my God, I would have been long gone by that point.
Sheila: And I’m sitting there, and the whole thing’s taking place with these two women speaking through doctor’s surgical masks.
Paul: Oh my God, I’m so sorry that was your first experience with the support group.
Sheila: And I didn’t know whether to laugh or cry, so when I went to pick up my husband, I was just like, “This is just great fodder for my writing.” What ended up happening was I totally broke down because I realized that yes, as an isolated episode, that has comic value, but I just put all my eggs I’d been trying so hard to get a support group, and this is the shit show that pans out to be? I am fucked!
Paul: It’s like the way your body treats you. You know what I mean? It’s like another disappointment.
Sheila: Another disappointment.
Paul: I try and I went to the doctor again, and here I am two days later, in pain, wanting to die.
Sheila: Yeah, and that’s another thing, is, I’ve had more scopes up my ass and down my throat than I can count. More vials of blood drawn, CAT scans, I went out to the Mayo Clinic, which is supposed to be the epitome of GI health, and I have been left with a doctor, who during a colonoscopy, um… she obviously didn’t read the, my medical background, which she required to take me. Which would have let her know that my system is not benzo-naïve. I take diazepam (sp?) which is Valium, so Versed (sp?) wouldn’t work on me. She just gave me Versed, she didn’t give me propofol. I think I’m getting propofol, and she gives me a colonoscopy, and I can feel the whole goddamn thing. And I cry out in pain and she goes, “Be quiet!” And then the Mayo Clinic, at the end of it, they basically said, “You have to be your own doctor.” And that’s why I’m just, at a loss.
Paul: I’m so sorry that you’re having to go through all this stuff. It sounds so frustrating. Kim, what do you want to say?
Kim: I’ll just add, throughout all this, she’s so strong, she doesn’t think she’s strong. I’m just saying, most people can’t even tolerate a headache. And she goes through this, I mean, like a champ. Alex didn’t even know how bad it was, because Sheila can put on such a good face, and she still continues to do things. I mean, it’s not just the physical, it’s the mental. She’s been depressed, since I think you were 10 or 11. I mean really, my first memory of Sheila is that in the swingset on our playground, she was the girl that cried on the swingset, every day.
Paul: Of course you were drawn to her!
Kim: That’s for me!
Paul: If you could speak to your body, Sheila, what would you say to it?
Sheila: What do you need from me? Tell me what you need, I can’t read your mind! I will give it to you! I will do anything, just tell me. Then I’d give it a handjob.
*chuckles*
Kim: Without lube.
Paul: Kim, what would you say?
Kim: To Sheila’s body?
Paul: No, to you.
Kim: This body… Um… what would I say to me?
Paul: Yeah
Kim: Um, to my body.
Paul: Yeah.
Kim: I think the healthy and productive part of me would say, “You don’t have it as bad as you think you do. And people aren’t looking at you the way you think they are.” And, “You’re healthy and strong, you bench 90 pounds, that’s awesome!”
Paul: That is awesome!
Sheila: She has gotten so strong. She’s gotten so strong.
Kim: It’s easy to forget the progress, but there’s a lot of progress that I’ve made. So… You know, I think just being kinder to yourself; self-acceptance is so big. Self-care and self acceptance are just… you gotta work on them every day. And it’s work.
Paul: It is work, and it’s like, I heard somebody describe one time, um… it was on this podcast, they said, “Reaching out for help when you’re depressed, is like thinking, while you’re vomiting, ‘Oh, I’m gonna make a phone call.’ “It is just (..) it is just the last thing you want to do, and it’s what self-care and self-compassion are like when you’re in the midst of beating yourself up and thinking you’re a piece of shit and your life is just going to go downhill from here, and why not end it now, and… cut the spiral off before it has a chance to feel worse. But that’s not the truth.
Kim: And I mean Sheila is capable of such joy, and such laughter. I mean, she is the funniest person I know. And as sad as she can get, she also can get so high, and so, you just appreciate life so much. And so to see her in just this condition, and know what it’s doing to her mind, I think was a few weeks ago, she called me and she just said, “I’m done, I’m done.” And I just (..) I didn’t know how to react, and I was trying to do tough love, and I just said, “This is not an option.” And of course my phone is cutting out and I’m in this café in Brooklyn and people are looking at me, um… you know, I feel as helpless as she does, because you want to be able to say, “I know it’s going to get better.” You know? I was quoting Wilson Phillips, “Hold on for one more day.” I mean (..)
Paul: Oh that’ll hasten things if anything!
Sheila: That really expedited the depression.
Kim: And I actually DID say, “We’re gonna turn this ship around like the Titanic!”
Sheila: And I called her on it, and I was just like, “The Titanic FUCKING SANK!”
Kim: I don’t have any other metaphors! And then just, last night, I mean…
Paul: What happened last night?
Kim: You…. After a harrowing day of travel, you know, we finally get here, and her issues on the plane, and just a six-hour flight, and everyone’s lack of humanity, trying to make her comfortable, she’d already just shat all over herself when she was just trying to go running at my house, um… and you know, we get here, and we just want to meet Alex, Alexandra, have her pick us up. I mean, long story short, just run through the wringer by the cabbie who took us $50 out of our way, dropped us off in Venice Beach. We both just needed a drink. Um.. and, Sheila needs a certain strain of- you’re comfortable with this? –
Sheila: Yes:
Kim: A certain strain of pot. I mean, Indica is more, it’s all body and that’s what she needs. It’s one of the few things that provides some relief. And uh… we got our hands on some California bud that was a little heady, probably not what was best. Um…
Sheila: And I was in, I was starting to get the stomach pain.
Kim: She was starting to get stomach pain, and I think what made it worse was frankly, being stoned, and being more heightened of your body. She was in so much physical pain, we were stuck in traffic, we were trying to get home, and she just went into a really dark place. Um…
Sheila: When it hurts that bad… and…
Paul: Where do you feel it? In your gut?
Sheila: Yeah, um… it’s just like right under my ribs and boobs, just like that.
Paul: She’s describing a circular motion.
Sheila: Yeah, just my digestive tract. It’s just like a party trick I can do. I can go in the other room and massage my stomach and it sounds like a slushy. It’s unbelievable the noise my stomach makes.
Paul: Wow. Have you ever tried acupuncture?
Sheila: I have tried it, and um… you know, I tried it once, and it didn’t do anything for me. I just (..) One of the things, is I’m just (…) after having been to the Mayo Clinic and having tried every piece of advice I’ve been given, I’m fatigued, I am fatigued from the advice. You know? I mean, I get fatigued from trying. I just, I try because I’ve worked on this. I am assertive still. You know, I’m 100% Irish, l get it from my mom, she’s a fighter. She’s a survivor, and um… full of piss and vinegar. Bu that’s not healthy for my stress, and so I try to calm myself down and not be so defensive and offensive. Um.. I don’t know, I think I just lost where I was going what that. But…
Kim: But acupuncture’s something you need to do more than once.
Paul: Yeah.
Sheila: I’m just fatigued from the whole (..)
Paul: I bet.
Sheila: So I’m just trying to, just try to be calm… during the day, as much as I can, not get rattled. I’m also a perfectionist. Um.. try to let that go. And contextualize things, put things in perspective. But it’s so much easier said than done. And the meds, you know, my doctor’s tweaking my meds, and then it’s just, I’ve been on meds for so long, and it’s hard to hit the right one.
Paul: What does it feel like when people give you advice?
Sheila: Like I want to tell them to go fuck off, ‘cause they have no idea. It’s actually one of my um… fears. Yeah. It’s, and I hate it because it comes from the best place, but they think they know, because IBS is something that you (..) it’s not one thing; it’s a host of symptoms that fall under this umbrella and it’s basically ruling out that you have Crohn’s, or irritable bowel disease, or colon cancer, or ulcerative colitis. And so there is no, there is no remedy; there is no solution aside from like stress management. It’s like, “Oh good, a functional, 100% Irish Catholic, great stress management’s not exactly my forte.”
Paul: It’s like telling a Jewish mom,”Cook in moderation.”
Sheila and Kim: Right. Right.
Paul: Any seminal moments from childhood or adolescence that you guys would like to share that were transformative um… traumatic, um… life-affirming, anything that you can think of before we go to loves and fears?
Or anything else that you want to share that we haven’t touched on that you feel?
Sheila: One cool thing that I discovered about myself is that I’m bisexual, and I discovered that um… when I was about 19. And um… I’m married to a man now, and very happily. And um… but… that was a, seminal moment for me, after I first kissed a girl and the excitement and the joy, and I remember being in her parking lot. And slamming on the steering wheel and going, “Oh my God, Oh my God, Oh my God, that was so awesome! Oh God! Oh God!”
Paul: Was she still in the car with you?
Sheila: No she had gone inside. She had gone inside and yeah… just the, just (…) Yeah. And then discovering what it was like to be with women, and it can be just lovely, and I wasn’t in a, when I wasn’t in a relationship and free to be with (…) whomever I chose, whether that’d be a man or a woman. It was just nice to know what it was like to be with a woman, because it’s a different experience than being with a man. And it’s um… it’s made, I think, my life, and my past richer. So that’s one nice seminal moment.
Paul: Does it feel safer being with a woman than with a man? Or, safer’s not the right word. Um… more tender than being with a man?
Sheila: Not with my husband.
Paul: He sounds like a really great guy.
Sheila: Oh he’s awesome.
Kim: Yeah… I’ve slept with him. .
*laughter*
Paul: Are you kidding?
Kim: We have an ongoing joke.
Sheila: *laughter* I think Kim has a secret crush on him.
Kim: He’s a beautiful person. He’s a beautiful person.
Sheila: yeah, so um… being with a woman prior to me being with my husband, was more tender. Um.. there was a kind of, and also, sensualness to it that’s (..) that’s been absent from being with a man. Yeah, so um.. the physical component is very different. And I just, you know, I really enjoy it. I’m glad that I’ve experienced that. And that I just had the chance. But I’m also glad that, whether it’d be a man or woman, I’ve found the perfect person for me, and I’ve always refused to settle. That was one thing my father told me, since I was a little girl, “The most important choice you’ll make in your life is choosing your mate. Don’t ever settle, Sheila.” I listened to him.
Paul: Is there anything you haven’t said to your husband that you would like to say?
Sheila: Oh God, I say everything to him! What could I say to my sweetheart?
*sigh*
Kim: Read your wedding vows; those were awesome.
Sheila: Yeah.
Paul: I just thought, off-hand, ‘cause sometimes we forget in our day to day grind to-
Sheila: We’re very communicative and affectionate, and I guess, with, as well as Kim, but because he’s with me every day, and he’s my partner, that he saves- I’m not gonna put it in the past tense- SAVES me. And he’s the light of my life. And he makes me feel worthy. Yeah. He makes me feel really special.
*sigh*
Paul: Kim, any seminal moments from your life?
Kim: I mean, I went right to my mother’s breakdown in my head, ‘cause it is kind of a defining thing. Um…
Paul: You wanna talk about that?
Kim: Um.. no..
Paul: You don’t have to.
Kim: No, I just think that being a child is interesting. I mean, I think about it a lot, and I’ve tried to process it and work on it, and I think the frustrating thing in therapy is that, I don’t know what there is to work out. You know, it’s just a shitty thing to see a parent, you know, when you’re 8 years old, completely, completely losing it, losing touch with reality. And unfortunately, having a family that’s so closed off and not explaining that, and there being no addressing of it, you know?is.
Paul: Had to have been terrifying!
Kim: It is. Yeah, terrifying, and also, “Is this how it’s gonna be forever?” Um… but you know, and I’ve realized that my dad’s human and my siblings are human, and everyone reacts to things differently, and he was protecting himself, and – you know? No one knows how they’re gonna (..).
Paul: What was she doing in her breakdown?
Kim: She was screaming about saving the Jews. I mean, religion is so often a part of psychotic breaks, when you’re bipolar, or at the time, they called it manic-depressive. Um… she was going to Bible study and reading the Bible, and um… something just literally, a flipped switch. Um… and just no control over bladder and, just really, like you would call histrionic and thinking she was gonna die, and you know? Them taking her away, and um… yeah. And she was gone for a few weeks, and then came back like a zombie. Um… yeah, and we don’t talk about it so…
Paul: What do you feel like when you are around her?
Kim: You wouldn’t know it today; I mean she’s been medicated for 30 years. Um…. You know? My mother, you know… she, I had issues with, you know, Sheila, was as they say, my advocate and my champion. And Sheila would actually stick up for me, because my mother would always stick up for my sister. So I always felt like I had my dad’s love, but never my mother’s. You know? And now, it’s kind of the opposite, my mother is just so doting on me, and so worrisome, and wants to be around me all the time, and um…
Paul: Do you enjoy that or does it feel overwhelming?
Kim: It can be overwhelming. Yeah. It can certainly be overwhelming. I mean, the unfortunate thing, is I would love to be closer to Sheila in proximity, but my family’s right down the road. Um… and I just, I’m not ready for a number of reasons, commit to that, having my whole family’s there. You know? My brother and my sister, and…
Paul: You wanna stay for them or for you?
Kim: Stay?
Paul: Near your family for your sake or their sake?
Kim: Oh! I don’t wanna be, I mean, that’s (..) I moved to New York City, and they’re in upstate New York. I need to keep a healthy distance.
Paul: Oh, I see! I thought you were saying your family (..)
Kim: No.
Paul: They live right down the street from Sheila. I thought you meant they lived right down the street from yourself. I see.
Kim: So it’s tough. And I’m the only sibling that kinda got away, but yeah.
Paul: Well, let’s do some fears! Do you both have some, or just Sheila?
Kim: Just Sheila.
Paul: OK, I’ll try to trade some. If you think of any, jump in and Alex, if you think of any (..)
Kim: Three part harmony.
Paul: Yeah. Sheila, you wanna kick it off?
Sheila: Sure! OK. My first fear, is that my IBS will grow increasingly severe to the point that I’m housebound by the chronic pain and the diarrhea/constipation. This, coupled with the lack of social interaction, off of which I thrive, will render me into a dark depression that will lead both my husband and I into a static, loveless marriage, because I’ve become a bastion of misery who is incapable of joy or love.
Paul: I need that to be more detailed, and more from the heart.
Sheila: OK! I’ll try again.
Paul: Why do you gloss over these? Why uh… why are you afraid to go deep?
*chuckles*
I know! ‘cause you’re a crybaby.
Sheila: Number two-
Paul: Yeah, if I think of any, I’ll interject some. Go ahead.
Sheila: That my mother and brother will die in the same year, due to the same heart condition. Which the former is addressing, and which the latter is exacerbating, through his history of severe alcoholism, his current copious consumption of unhealthy foods, coffee, cigarettes, and most recently, his role as a father to a newborn.
Paul: I am afraid that I will never be comfortable with games in my intramural hockey league, that are “important,” and I will always have a rapid heartbeat and intense fear of letting my teammates down, and a fear of when the buzzer sounds, feeling defeat, and will continue to hate that part of myself, and feel like, “Why can’t you stop being that ten-year-old boy?”
Sheila: That my husband will finally see the glaring disparity in the financial and emotional contribution that we bring to our marriage and overnight, he will have an epiphany which will morph him from a kind, empathetic soul, into a bitter, vengeful predator. In this latter state, he will summarily divorce me and, I will be left emotionally, spiritually and financially broken.
Paul: I’m afraid my toenails are going to be ugly. I’m just trying to think of one that’s more shallow than, more shallow than the one I did before. After I said that one, I was like, “Paul, why don’t you shut up? Because that is (..)”
Sheila: You tell yourself to shut up FAR too much!
Paul: It’s, I’m (..)
Sheila: You are awesome dude!
Paul: That’s very sweet of you, but you know, I have to let that out. Because, it’s like a burp inside of me. And I feel like, it’s the lesser of two evils. Sitting on that would be like um… feel false to me. And I know the listeners um… ‘cause I get emails from them, “Stop beating yourself up! Why are you so hard on yourself?” But I can’t. I’m getting better.
Sheila: You are.
Paul: I’m getting better at it.
Sheila: It’s those things that no one recognizes.
Paul: I know, but it feels so real to me. And the critical voice in my head that tells me that I’m going to be abandoned by the choice that I just made. Not by everybody, but by a portion of listeners, and that it’s these mistakes that I make, are just going to eat away at the listenership until there’s nothing left, and that I’ve put all my eggs in this basket, and that there’s not gonna be anything left, and I’m gonna be like, “WHY didn’t I think things through better? Why did I just (..) why was I so cavalier?”
Sheila: Well, you know what? I think you just redeemed yourself. That’s one fucking fear!
Paul: It’s true!
Sheila: Forget the toenails!
Paul: It’s true! I never thought about that. Go ahead.
Sheila: OK. Um… a little levity with this one. That my sense of smell will become increasingly acute, to the point that I detect every whiff of body odor, bad breath, garbage, etc. and in order to function, I’ll have to wear Vick’s Vapo-Rub under my nose 24/7 so that I don’t dry heave daily. This will then prevent me from ever being able to relish in my favorite smells, like the beach, freshly washed linens, my husband’s skin, the head of an infant, or my own flatulence.
*chuckles*
Paul: That’s awesome.
Sheila: And you’re lying if you don’t like the smell of your own farts. You’re a goddamn liar!
*laughter*
Paul: Is that it for your fears or do you have more?
Sheila: Oh, I have more but (..)
Paul: OK, let’s do two more, and then we’ll go to loves.
Sheila: Alright. Let’s see. OK-this one has a little levity to it as well. That I will continue to lose the hair on my head, in an inverse proportion to the growth of black hairs around my nipples. Eventually, I will look like Tweety Bird due to my disproportionately large head and from an aerial view, my nipples will look like pink spiders, each with a pencil eraser shaped zit rising from the exact center of its back.
Paul: Aw, that’s fantastic.
Sheila: And women you’re lying if you say you don’t have hair around your nipples. Sorry.
Kim and Sheila: You do. Yep. Your wife’s plucking ‘em.
Paul: She must be.
Sheila: She’s not doing it in front of you, but she’s pluckin’ em.
Paul: Let me ask you guys this. How do you not, how do you look at a man’s hairy asshole, and every look him in the eyes again?
Kim: ARE we looking into men’s (..)
Sheila: Yeah, it’s like, um…
Paul: But I mean, there’s gotta be a point when, you know, you’re with a guy, that you catch a peak of it. And I know women have hair around their buttholes, but it just seems like with guys, it’s just gotta be SO(..)
Sheila: Gnarly and funky?
Paul: Gnarly and funky!
Sheila: Well, it makes me wanna dance.
Paul: I think about that sometimes, when I, um… I don’t know. Like if I look at myself in the mirror, not at my butthole, but I’ll look at myself in the mirror, you know, just look at hair on my body, and think, I suppose it’s why I’m straight, but how does a woman look at a hairy body and get turned on by that.
Sheila: One of the women that I dated for a period of time said that she just simply couldn’t be with a man, because she liked the nice, smooth skin of a woman.
All: Yeah!
Paul: So I’m not crazy!
Sheila: No! You’re not crazy.
Paul: We are filthy beasts.
Sheila: I mean, you ARE crazy, but not for that reason.
Paul: Not for that reason.
Sheila: Umm.. I should end with this one. That Kim will never reach her goal weight, and will always be chasing a number, and this will prevent her from seeing her stunning beauty that everyone recognizes except for her.
Kim: She already read me that one and I cried.
Sheila: There’s a lot here!
Paul: Are these loves now? Let’s do some loves!
Sheila: Alright! Um…
Paul: I’ll start with one. I love, especially in the winter, when I appreciate how warm it is in California, making a bowl of cereal with berries on top of it, and going and sitting in the sun, and watching my dogs sniff in the back yard, as if all the smells are new. Even though they’re there every day, smelling the same things. I just love that feeling of being present, and being connected to the universe through the weather.
Sheila: Alright, so then I’ll go to my weather one. Being cold to the marrow, from the perennial freezing temps that plague upstate New York, then coming home and immediately taking a hot shower with Dr. Bronner’s 18-in-1 Peppermint Soap, then putting on my full-length fleece robes, then jumping into bed, under my multiple blankets that are perfectly ordered and textures, including the heated on that will always be closest to my skin, and commencing a night of binge-watching Breaking Bad or The ‘L’ Word.
Paul: Oh, that’s the best. Being able to binge-watch. That’s the greatest thing about the Internet, I think. Is being able to binge-watch episodes when you get into it.
Uh.. I have a love. That feeling when you make an Epsom salt bath, that is almost too hot, and you sink into it, and you almost feel like, “Oh, I’m gonna have to get out ‘cause this too hot!” But then that five-second window passes, and your body adjusts to it and, you know that you have taken the absolute hottest bath that you can without hurting yourself.
Sheila: I member you mentioning Epsom salts before, and I’ve never tried that. Is it really good for aching?
Paul: It’s the best! It is the best. And I would imagine for someone that has IBS (..) I would imagine that you’re flushing a lot of vitamins and minerals, when your body evacuates. And Epsom salt is a really good way to inject those minerals, via your muscles, back into your bloodstream. I actually feel like, the day after I take an Epsom salt bath, I feel the effect of that magnesium; I feel that calm. So it also helps with anxiety.
Yeah, treat yourself to that, especially in the winter. And they say that you should do it for at least 20 minutes, ‘cause the first 10 minutes you’re sweating some of your toxins out, and for the next 10 minutes, you’re absorbing the minerals in. Um… some people say even 40 minutes; 20 minutes to sweat it out, 20 minutes to (..) As hot as you can take it. But even just a warm Epsom salt bath is still good for you. And I’m gonna piss you off by recommending something.
Sheila: That’s alright.
Paul: The Body Ecology Diet. That book changed my life.
Sheila: I remember you mentioning that on a really early podcast.
Paul: Yeah, it changed my life; it changed my gut. It allowed my gut to heal. I have no idea if it’d help with IBS, but I’d feel remiss if I didn’t mention it.
Sheila: I appreciate it.
*unintelligible*
Sheila: Um.. yeah. Let’s see.
Paul: I might title this show, All About Assholes.
*chuckles*
I think we went a 10-minute stretch without talk about …
Sheila: At least it’s alliterative!
Paul: That’s true-All About Assholes.
Sheila: One of my friends from college arrived at our friend’s lakehouse, where we still meet annually, and recognized the scent I’ve been wearing since college and said, “Where’s Sheila?” But none of my friends just ask simple questions. Rather, they use histrionic, idiotic exclamations or declarations, like, “I smell Sheila Hand Job!” or “Where’s that dirty Albino?” or more recently, and my favorite, “I smell half of the High Lifes!” I can’t really explain the last part, ‘cause I’m trying to protect my anonymity.
Paul: Um… I love, and I don’t know if I’ve shared this on the podcast before, but I love … My two dogs, one’s name is Ivy, and she looks like a supermodel. We call her the supermodel. She looks like a fox on stilts. Beautiful. But she is, she’s like a diva actress. She is constantly looking at herself in the mirror, if you’re not paying attention to her and you’re watching TV, she will walk between you and the TV and strike a pose as if she’s posing for a photographer. If we’re petting our little guy, Herbert, she will come up and she will literally, push him out of the way and put her head in the way. She will eat out of his food dish, she is (..)
Sheila: A scene stealer!
Paul: She is an absolute scene-stealer. And we always joke, and he loves her, he worships her. And she is annoyed by him. And so my wife and I have created this whole back story of them, where she doesn’t even really know his name. She thinks his name is Herman, and so she’s always suggesting ways that we can put him in danger of dying. So she draws these cartoons for me in the morning , she’ll do a single panel, like the most recent one was, she drew both of them at the beach, and Ivy in a bikini, and Hervert in swim trunks. And Ivy was saying, “Um.. Herman, look at that shark. They love surfers-why don’t you (..)” And he always falls for the things that she does. Like she’s like, “The bungee cord doesn’t need to be tied to anything!” And he’s like, “COOL!” And it just makes me, when I get up in the morning, she’s already left for work, and she’s put this, you know, this single one thing on the dry-erase board, and it’s a great way to start my day, because it makes me laugh, and it reminds me that she’s thinking of me. And it’s about our two dogs, which is like our favorite thing, so that’s a love of mine.
Sheila: Awesome. I’ll find the one that kind of echoes that. Let’ see… The fact that my husband makes the best coffee I’ve ever had, even though I’m off coffee now. And he always makes me a cup before he goes to work, even though he leaves at 5:30 in the morning and I have ample time to make myself a cup when I wake up.
Paul: That’s a great feeling when your partner thinks about you. I never used to pick up food for my wife. I never considered her, this is before I got sober. And then after I got sober I would start thinking, “Well, maybe she’s hungry right now. Maybe I should pick her up something to eat.” And I love the feeling of seeing her see me consider her, and how deeply it touched and continues to touch her when I do get out of my bullshit for a second and think, “Well, maybe she’d like to have some soup when she comes home. I should surprise her with that.”
Sheila: Yeah. It’s the best!
Paul: Yeah. Sheila, Kim, Alex, thank you guys so much for coming by and sharing your lives with us. I really appreciate it.
Kim: Thanks for doing what you do, Paul.
Paul: Many many thanks to Kim and Sheila for being so easy to talk to and being such great supporters of the show. And um… no thanks to the cleaning guys outside the little office there that almost completely destroyed the audio quality of the podcast. That was a feat, for me to get through editing, recording, and editing that, and not wanting to scrap the whole thing, because I found it distracting and I don’t know why I didn’t get up in the middle of the interview and say, “Hey could you turn the fucking machine off?” You know why? ‘Cause I want everybody to like me, that’s why. ‘Cause I care. ‘Cause I care what people think of me, that I will never see again. But you know, it wouldn’t have been fair to the other people in the office that needed their carpet cleaned. Somebody do the right thing. Oh who gives a shit, shut up!
Let’s get to some surveys.
Oh, you know, before I do that, and we got a stack of surveys. I’m gonna be testing not only your endurance, but your patience. Um… I want to remind you there’s a couple of ways to support the podcast if your feel so inclined. You can go to our website mentalpod.com, and you can make a one-time PayPal donation, or my favorite, become a monthly donor for as little as $5 a month. It means a huge amount to me and to the show ‘cause we don’t make a lot of money doing this. And it costs money to keep up the website, and to rent the office space, and use the survey services, and etc. So every little bit helps. And it’s super simple to do. You could also support us by shopping at Amazon through the search portal on our homepage. It’s on the right hand site about halfway down, and you can support us non-financially by going to iTunes and writing something nice about us, giving us a good rating, or spreading the world about the podcast through social media. That helps greatly. So, any of those. Or you can just tell me to fuck off. Feel free to do that.
This is a Shame and Secrets survey by a woman who calls herself Nightingale. And she is bisexual, she qualifies, “I’m about 80:20, men to women.” She’s in her 20s, was raised in a totally chaotic environment. Ever been the victim of sexual abuse? “Some stuff happened, but I don’t know if it counts.” She doesn’t specify. She’s been emotionally abused. Any positive experiences with your abuser? She writes, “Yes. I had 3 abusive stepparents. One man, who married my mom, and two women that my dad dated. All 3 of these people were artistic, interesting, and fun in a lot of ways. They also conveniently forgot that I was the child in the situation and took their anger and issues out on me.” Darkest thoughts? “It’s hard to think of things that I am too shamed to tell ANYONE. So I guess, that’s good(?) This may not count, but I have had sexual drams about my father. The dreams are always the same, in which we have been incestuous for years, and I am just now realizing it. I don’t enjoy the act in the dreams. And it is as if I am numb. I’ve had 3-8 of these dreams, and always wake up feeling gross. The weird thing is that there has never ben any inappropriateness between us. My father would never hurt me like that. Maybe those dreams are normal. My stepfather, on the other hand, was a pervert, so maybe that has something to do with the dreams. I don’t know.” Darkest secrets? “My little sister and I have different moms. Her mom was incredibly emotionally abusive to me. We shared a room and when she was about 2-3, she would be awake in her bed sometimes, and I would talk very sweetly to her. I would tell her to come snuggle me. And she would be very happy to do so, since I did not show her much affection otherwise. She would come over to my bed, and as soon as she lied down, I would then start telling her in a very mean voice, to get out. And that I never wanted her there in the first place. She would cry softly and go back to her bed. I feel so bad about this. No one knows it happened, and I wonder if she even knows. The sad part, is that in a couple seconds, I would actually let her snuggle me. I remember feeling love for her. I remember her baby smell,and her soft onesie. I remember the love that I had for her that I could not let myself feel because her mother made it impossible for us to have a normal relationship. Even now, we are not close. But there was honestly no other time, when I was mean to her. She is one of the sweetest people I know. I hope that we can grow closer. I was so blinded by my own hurt and the abuse I endured that I did not put myself in her shoes. How sad she must have felt. The fact that I made a sweet little baby cry tears of sadness is really awful, even though I was a child myself at the time.” Sexual fantasies most powerful to you? “I’m incredibly turned on by the thought of my boyfriend having sex with a woman that exists somewhere between his and my physical ideal. He likes red hair and brunettes. And prefers small breasts. I like large breasts, so in the fantasy, the woman is a boxom redhead, LOL. It makes me feel strange, because I’m incredibly jealous at times. Yet the thought of him with other women, or even him as a younger man with past relationships really gets me going. This is not unique to him though. During my last relationship I actually masturbated while fantasizing about a situation that my ex boyfriend detailed to me. Something that happened when he was in his early 20s. He was 40 when we dated. I am much younger.” What, if anything would you like to say to someone that you haven’t been able to? “I would like to tell my older half sister, that I fear she is becoming an evil stepparent. I know acutely the pain of being emotionally abused by stepparents, and I feel that she has lost sympathy for her boyfriend’s daughters. This is disturbing and sad to me.” What, if anything, do you wish for? “I’m only 29, and I feel I have lost sight of my dreams. I want my self-esteem back. I want my sense of wonder back.” Have you shared these things with others? “Yes, I choose to only share them with people I know are safe, so it went well.” How do you feel after writing these things down? “I feel alright.” The question about, “What do you wish for?” um… made me sad. I just want to be happy. Thank you for sharing that. And I’m glad that you, even though you feel regret and pain about having been emotionally abusive to your little sister, the fact that you recognize that you were a child who was being emotionally abused, and um… didn’t have to tools to know how to deal with your feelings. So I hope you can forgive yourself.
These are some, um… happy moments that people shared on, is this Twitter or Facebook? Um… I think this is from Facebook.
Jolene McIKillip writes, “I love having a ‘Me, too!’ moment listening to your podcast. Um…
David Swick writes, “I love when you read spam in a sincere manner on the podcast.”
Chris Urban writes, “I love the first cold day in winter, when I can put on a thick hoodie and just hide a little bit more from the world when I’m out in public. So much safety in such a simple thing.” I get that, I totally get that.
Maddy Taylor writes, “I love discovering a new, obscure metal ban and upon showing it to my wife, watching her screw her face up and say, ‘AH! What is this crap?’
This is from the “What Has Helped You?” survey. This is filled out by a woman who calls herself What Even. And her issues are depression, panic attacks, social phobia, unending intrusive thoughts and suicide attempts. She also has physical illnesses and was diagnosed with autism spectrum disorder as a child. And what helps her, “Patience and Compassion for myself mostly. And meds. They help me get through my worst years. The times I loathed every moment and spent most of my time planning for ways to kill myself. You have to hit a certain level of wellness to begin to deal with your illness. My first therapist told me to stop coming because my anxiety was so horrible I could barely speak. A CBT workbook and learning the Tentacle Breathing Technique were what got me to the point where I could see a therapist. Now the thing that helps me most is being in nature. The awe I feel in the presence of such magnificent beauty reassures me that life is worth fighting for. The depression is manageable now, and I honestly feel that I love life. My contentment and simple everyday moments, by being present, accepting, non-judgmental, and not thinking of what I should be doing, or where I wish I was, when where I am is a perfectly okay place to be. I find my strange thoughts amusing, instead of terrifying, because I trust myself to be a kind person who would never act on my thoughts. Also I couldn’t leave out how finding people I trust, going to a support group and DBT have helped me from relapsing, and just generally improved my life.” Thank you for that.
This is the Shame and Secrets survey, and this is filled out by a guy who calls himself Propane. He’s bisexual, he in his 20s, he was raised in a slightly dysfunctional environment, he writes, “Due to my mother’s career, I moved to a different country every 4 years.” Every been the victim of sexual abuse?
“Some stuff happened, but I don’t know if it counts. When I was 10, a cousin who was 7 years older asked me to sit on his lap naked after a shower. He said he was going to help get ready. I did it and he started rubbing and kissing on me. I’ve never really thought about it until recently when I saw the cousin at a funeral. The memories flooded in and I compulsively think about it every day, and for the last 6 months, feel broken and utter shame.” I highly, highly encourage you to go to talk to somebody about that. Every been physically or emotionally abused? “Not sure. Before I was 13, whenever I was late for the school bus, my father would yell at me and say I would amount to nothing but a waterboy, street merchant.” Yeah, I’d say that’s emotional abuse. “After seeing how much it would upset me, he made it a recurring morning joke I didn’t find funny ‘Don’t be so sensitive,’ he’d say. After skipping school once, he beat me with a stick so hard I still get a twitch in my thigh and remember how much it swelled. My dad was in the army, so capital punishment-I think he means corporal punishment-was the norm. He punched my brother when he accidentally kicked the soccer ball in my face.” Oh that is priceless. Punch the brother, for accidentally kicking the soccer ball. Oh my God. “Needless to say, I have never been close to my father, although I have longed for a loving relationship. Most of the time, I felt like distat relatives that lived together.” Any positive experiences with the abusers? “Occasional family events-birthday, weddings, holiday.” Darkest thoughts? “I imagine my dad dying, sometimes by my hands, and not giving a shit. I imagine my mother cheated and maybe I’m not his.” Darkest secrets? “I’ve stolen money from relatives a lot to buy drugs and numb up. Thinking about buying some now.” Sexual fantasies most powerful to you? “Sleeping with an older man similar to my father, just so I can feel fatherly love. Twisted, huh? Which makes me feel ashamed and pathetic. Mentally fragmented.” You know, I went through that after I confronted the stuff that happened with my mom and I went through probably a good two-year period where I just had a recurring fantasy of you know, wanting to be with a motherly figure, and it’s just the brain’s way of trying to cope with it, and I have a feeling, if you begin to process some of this stuff, that’s happened to you, even if these thoughts or feelings don’t go away, you will be more comfortable with them. What, if anything, would you like to say to someone that you haven’t been able to? “That I just want to die and start of over. Perfectionist and narcissistic parents with extremely high expectations. My grades never meant shit unless they were 90% or above.” What, if anything do you wish for? “To not be constantly self-conscious. To be able to be happy without being high. Not to feel so anxious entering a room and telling myself every negative thought they may or may not be thinking about me. Doing my life’s passion of writing and acting instead of working in finance, which I think I do because I feel guilty for stealing as a teen?” Have you shared these things with others? “NO, I don’t think anyone would care, and everyone would know what a sexual deviant, superficial bastard I truly am.” How do you feel after writing these things down? “Liberated and owned my demons.” Um… I think the first thing to deal with would be, if you can’t control drinking and drugging, that would be a great place to start. Would be going to get help for that.
This is from the “What Has Helped You?” survey from a woman who calls herself Bipolar Two, and she writes, “I have Bipolar II disorder; I’ve struggle with depression, since I was a kid, social anxiety, PTSD from childhood trauma, culture shock growing up with religious extremism and suicidal families, being a witness to the suicide of a friend, being sexually, physically, and emotionally abused by friends, family, and a long-term boyfriend, as well as general existential dilemmas. Other than that, everything’s great!”
What’s helped you? “Meditation! Friends, and actually opening up to them. I see a counselor every two weeks, and a psychiatrist every month. I’ve had a mental health assessment by doctors, and having a diagnosis was helpful. I have never taken medication, and aim to avoid it. I found that taking cod liver oil and working very hard to heal my digestive system helped immensely. Having good sex and feelin beautiful helped. And it was very important for me to become physically strong. Now I feel much more self-sufficient and safe. Journaling, music, art and dance have always been a part of my life. I’ve created a blog to be able to discuss these issues as well, and that may be the most important part-to find a way to tell my story.” That’s awesome. I mean, and what a testament. The fact that she feels good and strong, and whole, when after that laundry list of things that she experienced.
Um… it’s like the human spirit is so resilient if we decide, we’re going to let it be.
This is Shame and Secrets Survey, filled out by Mimi. She is bisexual, in her 30s, raised in a totally chaotic environment. Was the victim of sexual abuse and never reported it. “When I was in my 20s, I dated a guy from work. One night, after we had several drinks and smoked out of his roommate’s bong, I passed out in my boyfriend’s bed. I was so intoxicated, he decided itw as the perfect time to have anal sex with me. I felt so violated, but since we worked together, I didn’t want to report it. I still fantasize about pushing him down a flight of stairs.” She’s been physically and emotionally abused. “I feel like my mother is Bipolar 1. She hasn’t been officially diagnosed, but she was completely unpredictable. I never knew what kind of mood she would be in when I came into the house. Beatings were a normal occurrence. I always screamed and begged her to stop. She never did. I hate the home I grew up in. I try to never go there. The hatred comes out full force when I step in the door. Anyway, I ‘fell in love’ with a man who was much older than me and I got pregnant at 17. Honestly, the pregnancy was unplanned, but I had to get away from my mother. I subconsciously got attached to someone who wanted to rescue me. Unfortunately, he was worse, but that’s a whole different story. My mother is still so manipulative, and we barely speak. I’ve spent many hours working with my therapist to come to terms with the abuse. I went to therapy wanting to learn how to forgive her, but I can’t. She doesn’t think she did anything wrong, so now I’m coming to terms that I may not be able to forgive her. I was robbed of my childhood. I just can’t let that go.” And uh… I… yeah.. just be patient with the process and be open to whatever is. I’m, you know? A big believer that forgiveness should never, ever be something that people are supposed to do. I think it’s something that is a byproduct, if it’s going to happen. It should be a byproduct of something. That might have been the most confusing, worthless three sentences that I have ever said. Think I was a little hard on myself.
Um… Any positive experiences with your abusers? “Sure, when she was in a good mood, we laughed so much. She was always there for me when I needed her. It just always came with a price.” You know, I would say that’s not being there, then.
What are your darkest thoughts? “I’m very judgmental. My mind is constantly looking for negativity. I look great outside, but my mind is a mess.” I’d say that probably describes 99% of us.
Darkest secrets? “I have a pretty serious cocaine addiction. My friends and I always use on the weekend. Sometimes during the week if we don’t have a lot going on at work the next day. I actually hate doing it, but when it’s readily available, which it always is, I indulge. The first bump is terrible, but I think, ‘Oh the next one will be better. Then it’s not, so I go for another one. I hate the feeling of wanting it. I hate coming down from it. I hate being at work the next day and not being able to complete a sentence, constantly sniffing and sneezing. I feel like everyone knows, but no one does. At least not at work. My daughter knows. She’s 20 and we are very close. I know she knows when I am high. I try to pretend, but she’s way smarter than me. She’s even seen my stash. I am so ashamed, but I have my dealer on my favorites list on my iPhone. I cannot stop.”
Sexual fantasies most powerful to you? “I wish there were a massage, a “rub n’ tug,” for women. I’d love to get a nice 90 minute massage with a happy ending from a guy, either with a vibrator or have sex.”
What, if anything, would you like to say to someone that you haven’t been able to? “To my daughter: ‘I know you know about my drug abuse. I’m sorry I didn’t set a better example for you. I should have been a better mother. I was so self-centered, and I know I made her feel like she wasn’t wanted. I hate myself for that.’” It’s never too late to repair a relationship.
What, if anything, do you wish for? “To be 100% independent. To never have felt like I have to rely on someone to take care of me. I just got out of a bad relationship where someone told me that I would be nothing without him. Hopefully I can prove him wrong.” I hope that doesn’t stand in the way of you getting help for your cocaine addiction, though. Um… asking for help is not weak. It’s a sign of strength.
Have you shared these things with others? “Yes, my therapist, friends, and very vocal about my feelings. My therapist is a gift from the universe. She’s gotten me through so much. Every time I step in her office, I feel so safe and loved.”
How do you feel after writing these things down? “I’m OK. This is the week I was supposed to get married, but one day, we looked at each other and asked ourselves, ‘What are we doing?’ So we called off the wedding. Everything is so hard right now, I can barely focus on the work. I just sit in my office and cry. I’m so tired of crying. I’m tired of the disappointment. I know in my gut that it was the right thing to do, but I am still so sad, disappointed, and angry. I feel like I got robbed. I’m not in a good place right now-damaged by mother, angry with my ex and scared of my own self-destruction.”
Is there anything you’d like to share with someone who shares your thoughts or experiences? And you know that last sentence? Those are all interrelated, those are all interrelated. And as you begin to work on one, you know, the “damaged by my mother, angry with my ex, scared of my own self destruction.” They feed, those can feed on each other. Um… but once you begin to heal and get some recovery, those other things, the stuff that isn’t drug-related wind up easing; our relationships with people improve because we’re not walking around angry, filled with fear, and reaching for blunt coping mechanisms.
Anything you’d like to share with someone who shares your thought or experiences? “Don’t settle. There is someone in your life that you don’t feel emotionally or physically safe with. It’s time to find the strength to seek help. Therapy helped me realize this person was not right for me. In therapy, I discovered myself and my strength. You can, too.”
Thank you for that, Mimi.
This is a happy moment, filled out by our friend, she’s done surveys before. Douchenozzle. How do you forget that name? Her happy moment she writes, “When I was pregnant with my daughter, all symptoms of my bipolar disorder seemed to vanish. Life was filled with hope and happiness that I missed for a long time. Although, after having my daughter, my brain broke. All the semi-manageable symptoms I had before seemed to be too much for me to handle. After kissing my husband and baby girl, I decided to I wanted to end it all. Seeing how I am writing this, I didn’t succeed. In a desperate attempt to help me, my husband sent my daughter and I to see my family, who live 1500 miles away, with none of them the wiser as to what I had tried, and how low I was feeling. While there, we went to a trampoline park for all the little kids. After countless attempts to get me to participate, my twin brother got me on to the trampoline and we spun around in circles. It seemed in that moment, as the world turned to a blur, and all I could see was his face, and the biggest smile. The cloud over my shoulder seemed to have lifted off me. We swung around and around with such force, that when our hands unlocked, we’d fly and hit the walls of the trampoline. And that moment with him, it was like my brain forgot to betray me and let me enjoy the moment. That little glimpse of happiness again, helped me want to get back on my medication. So I can find joy in the journey.” So beautiful.
I went to trampoline park with some friends about three years ago, and it was so much fun.
This is a Shame and secrets survey filled out by a woman who calls herself Struggling College Student. She is bisexual, in her 20s, raised in a pretty dysfunctional environment.
Every been the victim of sexual abuse? “Some stuff happened, but I don’t know if it counts. Starting from the end of sixth grade through the beginning of 8th, my brother, who’s 2 years older than I am, and I, experimented sexually. I don’t know if that counts as abuse or not, beause he always instigated it, and he was older and bigger than me and I always felt shameful about it and wanted it to stop, though often I would consent, and then occasionally enjoy it. Eventually, my parents found out what was going on by reading my diary when we were on vacation the summer before my 8th grade year and sent both my brother and I to therapy. We never talked about it after that day, but the memory of it still makes me feel so shameful.” Every been emotionally abused? “Not sure.”
Darkest thoughts? “My deepest thoughts are all sexual in nature. I am really disgusted by what turns me on. I imagine being made to be somebody’s submissive sex slave, humiliated in front of large groups of men. Forced to gain weight, then made to feel shame about my weight by being publicly and sexually humiliated about it. I don’t know why these things turn me on the way they do, and it feels terrible, but I can’t change my sexuality it seems. I would never want this to actually happen, because I’m sure it would be completely emotionally damaging.
Darkest secrets? “When I was in 7th grade, feeling intense shame about my body and my weight, but also experiencing this feeling of being turned on by the idea of humiliation of fat women. I made videos of myself jiggling my stomach fat and put them up on YouTube for the world to see. There’s apparently a large audience of fat fetishists on YouTube. At the time, I was at the high end of normal weight. The videos did not include my face, thank God. But I checked last year and they were still online. One of them had over 100,000 views, and many disgusting comments that I recall when I uploaded the videos many years before. I couldn’t remember my password to my YouTube account, so I reported the videos and thankfully, they were removed. I have not told anyone about this, because it makes me feel so, so shameful and bizarre, and wrong. And I don’t think I could bring myself to ever tell anyone about this.”
Sexual fantasies most powerful to you? “Being humiliated for my weight by someone thin and in shape. Having degrading things written all over my body. Being forced to wear too tight clothes in public. A sexual partner commenting on how fat I am and jiggling me to show it to me. Being a sex slave. Being sold at a slave auction and fondled and touched by strange men that are fully clothed. Being turned into a cow for use. Being raped over and over again.”
What, if anything, would you like to say to someone you haven’t been able to? “I would like to ask my brother what was going through his mind when he instigated incest with me. I want to ask him why he did that to me and how he feels about it now, and if he feels the same shame that I do, and if he feels as fucked up and broken about what happened. He is now in recovery for drug addiction, living in a sober house. So I really want to ask him what happened had anything to do with his addiction.”
What, if anything, do you wish for? “I wish to be able to liberate myself from my demons, to be free from anxiety and shame, and to feel comfortable in my own body and skin. I wished my sexuality favored loving, consensual relationships, but I guess I have to learn to accept it for how dark that it is. I still get pleasure out of normal sexual relationships, just not as much as my fantasies.”
Have you shared these things with others? “I tried talking to a therapist about some of my sexual fantasies last year. I immediately had an intense, terrible panic attack and have not spoken about them to anyone since.”
How do you feel after writing these things down? “I feel good. But I want to know that someone is out there reading these things, and might be able to offer some understanding, or advice, or support. I would like to hear someone’s thoughts on these things. I want to feel less crazy and fucked up and I can’t bring myself to talk about them out loud.”
Well, I can tell you that you have nothing to be ashamed of. Not what happened to you, with your brother, or what it is that turns you on. Everybody, everybody, has um… something from their past that they have anxiety or shame about. And something that turns them on that embarrasses them. And you are so not alone. You are SO not alone. So, sending you some love, and um… just keep opening up to that therapist. Let them guide you.
This is the Shame and Secrets survey, this is filled out by Nate. He is straight, he is in his 20s, was raised in a stable and safe environment, he was the victim of sexual abuse and never reported it. “About 2 years ago, I was in a fairly abuse relationship. My ex suffered from depression, social anxiety, and had been the victim of rape. In our relationship, she used sex (as an indication of our love). If I didn’t want to have sex, that meant I didn’t love her. There were several instances where I had sex when I didn’t really want to. As a guy, I thought, well, I should want to have sex, and if we start fooling around, I’ll get in the mood. Whenever this kind of situation did happen, I always felt bad afterward. Not depressed, not some kind of deep, brooding sadness. More like buyer’s remorse. I didn’t want to have sex, but I did, just to satisfy her.” He’s been emotionally abused. He writes, “Again, with the same ex-girlfriend. Toward the end of our relationship, I had concerns about her depression, which I think was my brain trying to tell me to end the relationship. One night, she offered to give me a blow job. Something she never wanted to do before. After a few minutes of this, she stopped and said she wanted to talk about us. Our relationship. We laid in bed nude, holding hands, and I finally admitted to her, that her depression concerned me, that I didn’t think she was getting the proper kind of help. And, as she put it, ‘That I thought she was crazy.’ After this, she began to cry and said we should pray for our relationship. I prayed with her. Not because I was religious, or even believed in the power of prayer, but because we were both naked in bed, and what the fuck else was I going to do? Throughout the rest of the night, she kept asking if I loved her, and I said yes every time. By that point, we were both dressed and in her kitchen. She kept asking me thought, ‘Did I love her?’ and I kept saying yes, but she wanted something more. She told me I needed to prove it to her, but I didn’t know how. Somewhere around midnight, for what seemed like hours on this questioning, I found myself sobbing on the floor of her kitchen, asking her what she wanted, and how I could prove it to her that I loved her. Looking back, I feel terrible about this relationship. I finally recognize that it was an abusive relationship (thanks to my current girlfriend).”
Any positive experiences with your abusers? “Yes, we did have good moments together, and I still feel like I could have handled our situation and the breakup better than I did.” I don’t know many people that feel like they ever handle the breakup well. That didn’t have some type of regret about something.
Darkest thoughts? “Occasionally killing myself. Nothing concrete. Or any more than a fleeting thought. But more like, ‘Things would not be as difficult financially if I didn’t live.’”
Darkest secrets? He doesn’t have any.
Um… sexual fantasies most powerful to you? “Public sex, sex in a library or public bathroom. I think the thrill of getting caught is my biggest turn-on. Something I don’t feel shame about admitting.”
What, if anything, would you like to say to someone that you haven’t been able to? “To my ex-girlfriend. I hope you’re doing better, and the person you are engaged to is good for you.”
What, if anything, do you wish for? “A better job, more money, the typical things, I think.”
Have you shared these things with others? “Yes. I have shared these thoughts with my girlfriend, who has been nothing but supportive and caring. She is the Robin to my Batman, and we are fighting crime together.”
How do you feel after writing these things down? “Slightly ashamed of my kink, but not enough to not share it.”
Anything you’d like to share with someone who shares your thoughts or experiences? “Don’t stay in abusive relationships. It’s not worth the time. If someone you know has depression, urge them to get help, but ultimately, if they can’t or won’t, then you need to leave him. Co-dependent and depressive partners are physically and emotionally draining.” Amen. Amen. That is as sick as staying with someone who refuses to get help as the person who refuses to get help.
This is, some Struggle in a Sentence, filled out by a woman who calls herself Princess of Bed Kingdom in the Land of Isolation. About her depression, “Hopeless depression keeps me indoors, which makes me more depressed, which makes me spend more time indoors.” About her anxiety, “Leaving my house sometimes feels like cliff diving.” About her anger issues, “I’m so fucking angry that everyone’s questions about my sexual assault are related to reporting the crime. What I could have done differently, or should do differently “next time” and if I was in any way to blame for my choices. NOT how I’m doing or how they can help me get through the aftermath of this crime.” Boy, that is (…) you CANNOT overstate the importance of what she just wrote. So many people who have experienced some type of sexual trauma are then traumatized even more by somebody focusing on the, the details of it, instead of just being a person that is there to listen and love.
This is also a Struggle in a Sentence survey, and this is filled out by a woman who calls herself Whoever You Want Me to Be Until I’m Not. And this is a snapshot from her life. She writes, “I start the day well. Get up early, do yoga, take a long walk with the dog, who seems to rather feel put upon for having to leave the couch. Sit down with a cup of coffee, work on that project I’ve started and told everyone about. After all this project will finally turn me into that normal human being I once set out to become. For about an hour, I open tabs, with social media sites, and close them as soon as I see that those people on there are actually DOING things. By that time, I’ve smoked 5 cigarettes, chewed off all my cuticles, and my head is pummeled this supposed project in to a puny little heap of desolation that sits in the corner whimpering and waiting to die. It’s 10 AM and I’m overwhelmed by the number of hours still to be endured until it’s finally time to fall asleep, high, and with the podcast drowning out the poisonous thoughts.” Oh my God, can I relate to so many parts of that? I don’t necessarily compare myself to what other people are doing on Facebook, but that perfectionism of, “I’m gonna work on this thing today!” And then I get all perfectionist about it, and I just wind up playing Scrabble for 5 hours and then taking a nap and hating myself.
This was a question that somebody had. It was buried inside a Struggle in a Sentence, and it was about the whole Duggar thing. Jessa Duggar, who was one of the victims of Josh, her older brother Josh. And apparently, he was like 13, and she was (..) I don’t know how old she was, but um… he sexually abused his younger sisters, and Jessa wrote an article saying that Josh was not a pedophile, a rapist, or child molester, and that she should be allowed to say these things because she was the victim. And this person was going back and forth between being mad at her for saying that and feeling sorry for her because she’d been through this, and she asked the question, “What do I think about this type of normalization of incest?” And I don’t know if it’s normalizing incest. I think it’s one of those (..) I think this is a classic example of the last thing we need to do here, is to try to force a label on what happened. Because it’s not productive to Jessa; it’s not productive to people who are trying to learn more about, you know, these things. And it’s probably not productive for Josh. I think what’s important is, for him to get help. And to take a hard look at what it was. Um… that he DID, and to eventually, um.. be able to make amends to his sister. And to hopefully forgive himself. For her to process what happened to her. But the trying to fit it into a box of saying, “He’s a child molester; he’s this…” You know. If you put a gun to my head and said, “You have to classify as this as something,” I would say, he was somebody who was sexually abusive as a child. ‘Cause to me, 13, you’re still a child. Yeah, you should know better than a child who’s 6 or 7, but um… you know-everything’s on a continuum. So few things are really cut and dry. And so much effort is wasted trying to force things into binary choices. And look at the hell that people in the trans community go through because they don’t fit into our society’s binary view. And just the 4 years of doing this podcast, the more I see how much anguish and anxiety and self-hatred and confusion could be more easily dealt with, if we gave up the idea of putting things into boxes and having firm labels on things. I hope that makes sense.
This next one is too dark. And um… my voice is starting to go, so I’ll save this for another day.
Um… let’s get to some happy shit.
This is a happy moment, and this is filled out by a woman who calls herself (..) I’m gonna assume this is her actual name, but maybe not (..) Lydia Bennett. And she writes, “Last summer, shortly after finishing college, I went to a Jenny Lewis concert with my friends. We’d been roommates and extremely close friends as freshmen. But it’s since drifted apart somewhat, and only saw each other once every few months at most. We ended up having a great time, chatting, singing and dancing together at the concert. Then Jenny did an acapella version of her song, “A Better Son/Daughter,” which is about her own experience with depression and the abuse she suffered at the hands of her drug-addicted mother. In spite of everything her mother has done to her, and in spite of her sadness and anxiety, she still longs to be “a better daughter” and sings about the dream of a happier future. I have always related to this song. And hearing one of my favorite singers perform it so plainly and honestly had me in tears. And I found myself leaning against the pillar to keep from sinking to the ground. Suddenly, I felt my friend’s hand in my own, and I remembered all our late nights, talking in our side-by-side twin beds. I remembered how she worried about me like a mother should, and how when I was freaking out with anxiety, she would make me play the worst case scenario game by helping me see through all the consequences or lack thereof of my choices and calm me down. Most of all, I remembered the time I ended up in the emergency room in the winter of that freshman year and how my friend brought my stuffed zebra from our dorm room. I remember arriving in the hospital bed and my friend racing down the hall to get a nurse, because they weren’t coming when we buzzed the button. She stayed by my side all night until my mother could drive across the country to be there. Even when our RA showed up and urged her to go home and get some rest. I looked back over my shoulder and saw that my friend was crying, too. I looked around the room. Everyone was crying. No one was hiding it. People were holding each other and singing along. Everyone knew the words-these words about fear and shame and wanting to die that I clung to for so long. In that moment, I truly felt that I was not alone in my life or in mental illness. I was sobbing. I had never been happier.” I should have ended the podcast on that one.
This is a “What Has Helped You?” filled out by Mama DTG. I am getting too tired-Mama DTJ! And her issues are diagnosed bipolar disorder and undiagnosed anxieties. She writes, “They are paralyzing.” What has helped out? “Knitting! It is a way for me to empty my mind and channel my manic creative energy. I highly recommend some kind of handicraft as a distraction from anxious thoughts. It’s great to make things because then you have something to look at our hold, and say, ‘I made this!’ “ I heartily agree, and I would go woodwork, if I wasn’t so depressed. *chuckles*
This is a happy moment from Liz. She writes, “Today, I took a nap with my dog. She’s a small lapdog, but I’m sure she thinks it’s all about her. We slept back to back for a while, but then I changed positions. As soon as I did that, she popped her head out of sleep and looked at me as if I was crazy. The sunlight from my window wasn’t too bright, but just warm enough for the both of us. It was such a happy moment for me. Because for a brief moment, I let go of the anxiety and depression I have been living under for the past few months.” I’m gonna say, there’s nothing better than a dog nap! My dogs have NEVER verbally shamed me for a nap. Not even giving me a (..) ‘cause you know, Ivy! If there’s gonna be a dog in the universe that’s judgmental, it’s Ivy. She’s always been happy every single time I’ve gotten into bed for a nap.
This is, finally, this is a happy moment filled out by a woman who calls herself Anxious Unicorn Nurse. And she writes, “When I was around 5 or so, my great grandfather gave me a plastic toy doll. One day, soon after he’d given it to me, I was playing with it in his room at the back of my grandparents’ house. And one of the doll’s shoes fell off. He came to my aid, putting it back on, and noticed that the doll’s heel had been pushed in and got stuck that way. It had been that way when he gave it to me, and I had tried to fix it and eventually accepted it. But when my Poppa saw it, he was clearly dismayed he’d given me something that was less than perfect. He took the longest time trying to fix it, and I remember watching him, knowing how much I was loved and feeling so respected by an adult so very much my senior. I knew then, that it was a memory I needed to actively save away as deeply as I could. He finally quit trying to fix the doll’s heel and just gave me a huge hug, and we played together some more. He died a few years later, and I would summon up that memory from time to time, when I needed to feel like I had an ally, or a supply of unquestionable love.” Thank you, EVERYBODY, who filled out those surveys.
And um… thank you to, oh my God, I need to go to bed. Thank you to Sheila and Kim, and if you’re out there, and you’re feeling stuck, don’t give up. You are not alone, never have been, you never WILL be, it’s only your mind telling you that the you’re the only one going through what you’re going through, and feeling what you’re feeling. And um… find somebody to open up to. And um… yeah. I think that’s it. Thanks for listening!
*outtake music*
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