The 28 year-old listener opens up about his family’s history of avoiding emotions, his cries for help, being sexually assaulted by a male friend at 13, struggling to live on $8/hour, his cutting and self-abuse and his shame over being aroused by dressing and acting like a baby.
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Episode Transcript:
Paul Gilmartin: Welcome to episode 140 with my guest, listener D. I’m Paul Gilmartin. This is The Mental Illness Happy Hour: an hour or two of honesty about all the battles in our heads from medically diagnosed conditions, past traumas, or sexual dysfunction to everyday compulsive, negative thinking. This show’s not meant to be a substitute for professional mental counseling. It’s not a doctor’s office, it’s more like a waiting room that doesn’t suck. The website for this show is mentalpod.com. Please go check it out. All kinds of good stuff there. Blogs you can read, surveys you can take. You can see how other people took the surveys. You can support the show financially, and there’s other st-- oh, you can buy a T-shirt, a coffee mug, etc etc. Wanted to remind you that next week, November 15 and 16, I’m going to be Toronto. On the 15th, I’ll be doing a group recording at 7 o’clock, and anybody is invited to join that. No tickets are necessary. It’s going to be at the Workman Arts Theatre. That is the same place that I am doing a live recording of the podcast with a single guest, Scott Thompson from Kids in the Hall. Saturday the 16th at 4 o’clock pm, again, at the Workman Arts Theatre. Tickets are necessary for that, and they are available-- the link for that is on my website. It’s on the homepage about halfway down. So again, Friday night 7 o’clock group recording, everybody’s invited. And Susan Hagen is going to be sitting in. So basically, people are going to be stepping up to the mic. I’m going to have a stack of surveys there for people to read through, and maybe it’ll trigger something you want to talk about on the mic. Susan and I will just kind of be chiming in. So hopefully you can make it. Let’s get to a couple of surveys before we get to our interview with D. These are from the Struggle in a Sentence survey, and Jane, about her anxiety, says, “If only I can pinpoint that one thing that is bothering me, all of this tension might melt. But the more I try to pinpoint it, the more tension I feel.” About her bulimia: “It’s the most depressing seesaw in the world. One minute I’m elated because I can eat anything I can afford and be numb from the pain of reality, followed by the aftermath of the purge. Everything is in disarray, I’m covered in my own vomit, and I am weak and nearly bedridden.” About her OCD: “I can’t comprehend why other people don’t want things in the order I do, which just makes my blood boil even stronger.” About her codependency: “I become a shell of myself around everybody except for him. My personality ceased to exist while in public I stood silently next to him, and I let him do all the talking.” Kaja Levi about her depression says, “Dysthymia is like perpetually doing the running man on a precarious stack of newspapers.” That’s a great one. Transcendence says about her anorexia, “Ecstasy for every lost pound while feeling my family’s concern like a little cloud.” Her PTSD: “Feeling at home in my body until it suddenly revolts and takes my mind with it.” Being a sex crime victim: “Knowing that he took five years of my life and probably doesn’t remember me.” That is fucking heavy. This is from Unload my Cabasa. I wonder if she meant Kabasa. About living with an abuser, she writes, “My blood boils every time I hear his anything. His stupid mumbling, the way he drags his feet on the floor, and the idiotic way he clashes pots together.” About her anger issues she writes, “When my mother says, ‘You’re just like your father,’ after an argument, I just want to raise up my fist and punch her until she can’t breathe, like my father did to me. How ironic.” Finally, from Megan, about her codependency she writes, “I’m not happy if you’re not happy. But if you’re not happy, I have to make you happy, which makes me unhappy, which makes you unhappy, which makes me unhappy.
[intro plays]
PG: I’m here with D, who is-- how old are you?
D: 28.
PG: He’s 28 years old, and you had contacted me via email, is that correct?
D: Yes. I sent you an email. I typed it at work on my phone, trying to not seen.
PG: [laughs]
D: I was listening to your podcast, I thought, “Maybe he’d be interested.”
PG: Well I’m glad you contacted me. Where would be a good place to start with your story? You want to give us a broad stroke of the things that you struggle with?
D: Okay.
PG: And then we’ll get into detail about them?
D: Sure. Okay, probably my main problem is depression. Even probably bipolar, too, because I sometimes have hypomania. But probably 98% of my problems are just depression. Some anxiety, but I think that’s controlled with meds.
PG: Are you under the care of a psychiatrist or a doctor or an MD?
D: A psychiatrist, counting mental health. He’s a prescription pad that talks, basically. It’s just a big-- I mean, there’s no funding for anything, so it’s really tough.
PG: Do you consistently get to see the same person?
D: I see the same doctor once every three months for about a minute or so.
PG: Oh wow.
D: No talk therapy. I’ve even said to him like, “Meds alone aren’t working. Maybe I could get talk therapy? Maybe that would help.” He’s like, “I’m sorry, there’s no funding. There’s no time, it’s too expensive.
PG: Well you know what, maybe not through there, but if you dial 2-1-1 from a landline, you may find resources that are available in your area that are low-cost, on a sliding scale, or sometimes even free. The other thing you can do is Google “low-fee therapy” or “sliding scale therapy” and the name of your town or city and see if that turns up anything. I’ve gotten lot of emails from people who’ve had success with that, and I had success with that. I did that, and I found a therapist who worked on sliding scale. She was working on her license, and she was great. She was one of the best therapists I’ve ever had.
D: Right, usually students are really great. They’re not jaded.
PG: Yeah, and they’re really interested. I’m sure there are people that have had bad experiences, but what does it hurt to try?
D: Right, right.
PG: So what are the--
D: I’d say depression, some anxiety, but that’s okay right now, suicide attempts, very strong family history of suicide.
PG: How many attempts?
D: Myself? Oh god, I literally lost count. I think it’s three or more. [laughs] My dad, my half brother, my dad’s brother, and myself have all attempted suicide. They’re all on my dad’s side. All attempted, no one’s succeeded for some reason. I don’t know why we’re so bad at it. [laughs] It’s in my genes. I honestly think it’s within me, that kind of self-destruct switch or whatever, it’s in my DNA, in every cell in my body I just feel like. I read something 30-50% of suicidal behavior is dictated by genes. So it almost doesn’t matter what kind of life I had. I almost think like there’s at least a 1/3 to a 1/2 chance that I’d probably try to take my life no matter what. It’s just in my DNA in a way. And also schizophrenia is in my family. My mom’s agoraphobic.
PG: You’ve got a lot on your plate.
D: Dude, we’re a mess, genetically. We’re horrible.
PG: Well I’m a big believer that, while we can be genetically predisposed towards stuff, there’s so many--
D: Right, you need to--
PG: --ways to ameliorate that.
D: It’s environment and genes. You can control your environment to some extent.
PG: You can. That doesn’t mean that that thing will ever completely go away, but in my experience, it can definitely become manageable, but it takes a lot of focus and dedication.
D: Daily things.
PG: That’s so hard, is because when depression hits you, you want to give up.
D: Dude, when someone wants you to do something for your depression, I’m like--
PG: “Fuck you.”
D: --“You don’t get it, man. That’s the whole fucking point. I can’t do anything.”
PG: Yeah, somebody in the Struggle in a Sentence survey I read last night said that depression feels like somebody has just turned up the volume on gravity. [laughs]
D: Oh my god, that’s perfect. Yeah, I was thinking, I came up with something. It’s like wearing a backpack full of bricks. 24/7, you cannot take it off. You bathe with it, sleep with it, eat with it, fuck with it. Doesn’t matter, cannot take it off. You’re dragged down all the time. Your body aches. Everything is a struggle, and someone wants you to run a marathon or something. God dammit, look at my back!
PG: I can tell you there is relief from it, because I’ve experienced it, and I’m in relief from it right now. But it seems to come in layers as we uncover shit from our lives. We get a reprieve and then maybe the next layer comes up and we kind of--
D: You have to deal with this shit one way or the other. Either you deal with it when it happened, or you work through it later, therapy or whatever. There’s no delaying it, ultimately.
PG: Anything else?
D: Sexual assault possibly, when I was 13. Which was-- yeah. I’m not thinking of anything else, really. I’ve been homeless. Been in psych wards, been 5150ed. Rather insane history of self-harm.
PG: You got a nice resume.
D: Yeah, dude.
PG: You got to start sending those out, man.
D: It’s crazy. It’s crazy.
PG: Did you want to talk--
D: I’ll talk about anything.
PG: Did you want to talk about the sexual stuff that you--
D: Oh yeah, that too. Paraphilia, obviously. Yeah, we can get into it.
PG: Tell the listeners what exactly paraphilia is. I know this is hard.
D: Yeah, there’s several names. Infantilism, adult baby, autonepiophilia, which is like a Greek word. I take some pride in having the most ludicrous fetish. It’s so fucking bizarre. I totally get Jerry Springer and Dr. Phil and all the exploitative-- it’s insane. I never have lost my self-awareness that my sexuality or my fetish or whatever is fucking bizarre. [laughs] It almost makes no sense, even to me, I don’t quite understand why. I try to verbalize what this is, and it’s just hard, because it’s like, obviously very deeply rooted for as long as I can remember.
PG: Can you move the microphone a little closer to your mouth?
D: Yeah, sure.
PG: Perfect.
D: I’m a novice. It’s just very deeply rooted, and I can tell. For as long as I can remember being conscious, I’ve felt like this.
PG: What are your earliest memories and feelings around that?
D: So probably the one that I think of the most is, I was born and then my sister was born about a year and ten months after I was. She was a baby, and we were all in the family room together and stuff. I guess they were changing her diaper, and they were paying attention to her and not me, and I was like, “I want that, too.” I think I either laid down next to her or I just asked, “Put one on me, too.” They’re like, “No dude, come on.” They weren’t into it obviously at the time [laughs]. So that’s my earliest memory, is like, “I want that attention.” It was always like, I felt like I didn’t get enough attention from my mom because my sister was born. I’ve always felt like that. I’ve always felt like she was the favorite. I feel like part of why I have such an insane need to be taken care of and attention and stuff like that is I feel like I was kind of deprived when I was younger, when my sister was born.
PG: Do you crave to have a partner hold you and look into your eyes and see you?
D: Yeah.
PG: Well let me ask you this. What do you crave from a partner, sexuality aside, what do you crave from them, if anything?
D: It’s tough, I’ve only had one girlfriend in my life, and it’s been five years or something since I last had a girlfriend. So my whole romantic life is not too well-developed. But I think in a romantic partner, I like kind of just warm, maternal, caring women in general. I’m definitely drawn to that. I definitely want my partner to-- I’d not be in lead all the time. They could maybe be the alpha or whatever. I could be the submissive one in the relationship. I like to not be in control.
PG: Do you like ever being in control in a relationship?
D: No, I’m totally submissive. In the BDSM sense, I’m a submissive. Total sub. But it’s just hard for me to say what I want. I want a girlfriend right now. I want to date and stuff, but I’m so socially awkward and afraid to do anything and talk to girls.
PG: What are, if any, the emotional fantasies around having a relationship?
D: Yeah, I just like obviously, just love.
PG: Expressed in what way?
D: Physically, obviously, and--
PG: Like how? Can you be more detailed?
D: Sex, obviously. But just a lot of touching. A lot of touching, holding hands, hugging. Holding each other. I like to be held.
PG: Eye contact?
D: Yeah. It’s tough, I think for the right girl I could-- I’m not going to date a million women and be out every night and at the bars and whatever. I’d like to find one woman to just stay with for the rest of my life, I think. If we could be soulmates or whatever. I’m very lonely. I don’t really have friends. Just to have another warm human nearby that you have a real bond with, I think would be very nice, because I’m often alone and kind of-- I don’t know. It’s tough.
PG: What’s your relationship like with your parents?
D: Well okay, so it’s okay. It was a bad situation, I was living with my parents for too long. Finally kicked me out about a year ago.
PG: Did they say why?
D: I’m not quite prepared to talk about exactly what happened, but I did something that I regret, and I’m still trying to-- but anyways, it just had to-- what can’t go on forever, won’t. It was going to end at some point. How it ended, I was 5150ed. They took me to this thing called Santa Ana ETS. Evaluation Treatment Services, which is this bare-bones thing. If you don’t have insurance and you have some kind of psychiatric thing going on, they’ll take you to this horribly depressing thing with bolted-on plastic beds, and it’s just horrible.
PG: The Motel 6 of psychiatric care.
D: In America-- people in Europe and other countries where it’s like socialized medicine-- it’s insane in America. If you have mental health issues, you’re on your own.
PG: Some people do connect it, but so many people think that gun control is about the guns. While there’s certainly that issue to be made, when people go on these rampages, it’s not about the guns. It’s about the mental illness going untreated.
D: Right. James Holmes, man, Cho Seung-Hui. Like all these people tried to reach out. What’s his name, Jared Loughner. All of them, dude. They all have a history of-- and no one wants to-- everyone passes the football to someone else. There’s no bureaucracy, there’s no centralized anything. No communication.
PG: It’s easier for people to write them off as not being a human being, just being a machine or a monster that needs to be put down.
D: Right, well you don’t want to think that the person who went into elementary school and did that is the same species as you, let alone-- but anyways, yeah, so they took me to the Santa Ana ETS thing, and I didn’t have insurance. They were going to release me. I was in a very bad bad bad place.
PG: What was your diagnosis? Did they give you one?
D: They said it was bipolar, major depressive, something like that. It was a violent thing, what happened.
PG: But you don’t want to share the details of it?
D: No. Sorry, it’s just like the worst thing I ever did. I shouldn’t have even mentioned it, because now people are like, “What happened?” I just can’t right now. But regardless, I was 5150ed, I was at Santa Ana ETS, and I knew they were going to release me because I didn’t have insurance, and they didn’t want anything to do with me. So I took a bed sheet and I tied it around the doorknob in the bathroom area of the room I was in, and I tried to hang myself. I literally prayed at that point, and I’m an atheist, and I don’t really believe in god [laughs]. This was just my hour of need sort of. But the suicide attempt was not-- I really wasn’t trying to die. I was just like, “The squeaky wheel gets the grease. If I try to kill myself, they will give me two weeks inpatient and I can sort this shit out.” So I did that, and fucking called the paramedics and shit. Anyways, they took me to another emergency room, and long story short, I got two weeks at a place. They eventually turned me out on the street and I was homeless for a little while. Got into a homeless shelter.
PG: What was it like being homeless?
D: I was only homeless for three or four days. It was very lucky. I’m a really spoiled, white, suburban, upper middle class kid. Never had any true difficulty growing up or anything. It was weird, man.
PG: Not financially.
D: No, not really. My dad’s a teacher and he’s very stable pension and all that.
PG: But can you see that your life wasn’t easy, and emotionally you were not privileged that you grew up in what sounds like emotional poverty to me.
D: Dude my family, yeah. My family does not talk about anything ever.
PG: There’s some big elephants in your living room.
D: Yeah, dude, like when my half brother killed himself it was like-- or tried to kill himself, thank god. He has schizophrenia now, but when he tried to kill himself, we didn’t talk about it or anything. Maybe they thought I was too young or whatever, but then my mom started developed agoraphobia. I didn’t hear anything about that. We just stopped going on vacations one year. It was like, “What, why?” They were like, “Too expensive,” or something. We wouldn’t go to Hawaii, we’d go to like visit grandparents in Oregon and whatever. But yeah, they didn’t tell me that, either. Maybe they thought I wouldn’t understand or whatever.
PG: So you guys went on vacation to avoid dealing with it, is that what you’re saying?
D: No, I’m saying we stopped going on vacation, because my mom could not leave Orange--
PG: Oh, I got you, I got you.
D: --County without having panic attacks, serious. So anyways, yeah, my family, it’s just awkward. We don’t tolerate awkwardness in anything, or any heavy, negative, sad, dark emotions are never voiced. It’s always, “How you doing?” “Great.” “How you doing?” “Good, I’m doing good. Doing great, everyone’s doing great.”
PG: I’ve shared this before on the podcast, but when my dad tried to kill myself, he was committed to Bellevue.
D: Ooh, wow.
PG: All there was was a-- because he was in New York on business and he didn’t show up for a meeting and he had opened his wrists in the bathtub, and so they kicked the door down and found him there. So he was 5150ed, and there was no way to get a hold of him other than the payphone in the hallway. After three days of it ringing and somebody picking it up but not finding him, we were finally able to get him on the phone. I said, “Dad, it’s Paul. How are you?” He said, “Oh fine!” It just broke my heart. It just broke my heart. So I get it. I also understand it on a certain level because it’s, to go in there, to go inside when there’s such lava in there is so-- it burns on a certain level.
D: Yeah, I get why. It’s tough to talk about this stuff, and so we take the easy route. But again, you got to deal with that shit.
PG: You do.
D: Chickens come home to roost, or whatever.
PG: It’s going to come out one way or another. There is no hiding it. There is no hiding it.
D: But yeah, so the homelessness thing, it was a good thing ultimately. I’m actually in a better place than I was, even just a year ago, living at home, being addicted to marijuana. I was literally selling all my possessions just to afford weed. Craigslist was my favorite website. So anyways, yeah that was cool. I got into a really cool homeless shelter. They had a program where you’d save like 80% of what you earned in a job. I got a job pretty quick. So I saved up a good deal of money there for housing. So I ended up being able to rent a place on my own from a guy. Rent a room, rather. So I’m actually somewhat of a functional adult, for a 28-- first freaking time in my life. I work 40 hours plus a week and pay for my own everything. It’s an adjustment. I feel good, though. When I lived with my parents, I never was okay with it, and I always hated myself. Every morning I woke up hating myself. Every year it would get worse and worse, because I was a year older. 25 and I’m still living here. 26 and I’m still living here. 27. I never was able to leave, because I think I was too depressed. But yeah, I’m on my own now, and I’m doing well. I still got to find something, support groups and therapy and all that stuff.,
PG: I think there are few things as challenging as living in a home that’s toxic. My heart goes out to people, especially young people, that have no financial independence and are stuck living with--
D: That’s true, yeah.
PG: I’m not saying your parents were abusive, but I correspond with quite a few people in their 20s who--
D: Oh my god, if I could just talk to specifically people in their 20s living at home with their parents, not working and not paying rent. Every year you keep doing that, it’s going to get harder and harder. Eventually you will have to live on your own and earn your own money, pay for your own stuff. Parents, you’re not doing your kids any favors. It’s tough. But then jobs are scarce, and everything is expensive, and economy. It’s just tough.
PG: There’s a segment of our society that just seems - especially the corporate world - that just seems clueless about the fact that people need a living wage. I know they want to be competitive globally, but there’s got to be some alternative. One of the problems I have is that the gap between the average worker and the CEO has gone up by like 1000% since the 50’s.
D: It can’t go on. I worry about society being destabilized by all this. The gap between the rich and poor. Right now I make minimum wage. I can’t sit down. I’m a gas station cashier. Yeah, it sucks. We get two 10-minute breaks. It’s really hard to survive on eight bucks an hour. It’s just really really fucking hard.
PG: I can’t imagine.
D: I don’t ever go out to restaurants. I don’t ever go to the movies. I don’t ever do fun stuff. I try to just do everything online. I’m not complaining, it just sucks to struggle. I’m tired of struggling with everything.
PG: So what would be another thing to talk--
D: We can talk about the sexual assault. So this was about when I was 13. I was at my best friend’s house at the time. We were hanging out. I don’t think his parents were home. We were wrestling, like how boys’ll wrestle or whatever. It just sort of kind of turned into-- it started out fun wrestling, and then he sort of like overpowered me and held me down. I hate him for doing this, because I have to use this word to describe it, and it’s a funny word. But he started humping me, like grinding his crotch against my side. I didn’t like that [laughs], and so I was like, “Hey dude, stop it. Come on, man, stop. Let go.” He got really quiet, and he wouldn’t stop. He was bigger than me, I was a very small kid, and he was bigger and stronger. He just held me down and he just kept rubbing himself on me like that. It just wouldn’t-- I was getting more and more frantic. I couldn’t get away. I had never been trapped before like that, like unable to get away from something bad that was happening to me. I kept fighting and I kept fighting, and he kept doing it and he wouldn’t say anything. I remember I just sort of stopped struggling. I just went limp and waited for him to stop. I think I dissociated. Something broke inside me, is the only way I can describe it. I’ve always been weird about touching people and being touched.
PG: Before then?
D: After then.
PG: Okay.
D: Even though I like to be touched, but it has to be under my conditions or terms or whatever. But he wasn’t an adult. We weren’t naked. I didn’t know what it was. It took me a long time to realize that was probably a big deal. Because I didn’t think about it at the time, I just sort of tried to not think about it. I think we were still friends after that, and I hung out with him or whatever. But it was like years later, I would kind of think about it occasionally and just like, “What was that?”
PG: Do you still encounter him?
D: No. No, I haven’t seen him - we moved in ’99 - I haven’t seen him in 14 years. He was my best friend. I had to move away from all my friends, actually.
PG: I’m glad that you can call it a sexual assault.
D: Thanks, yeah it was tough. I actually posted something online kind of describing it, and someone was like, “Yeah, that’s sexual assault,” and I was like, “Okay.”
PG: Yeah, don’t ever let anybody--
D: Because you feel like maybe--
PG: --tell you it wasn’t.
D: --“Oh, we weren’t naked. It wasn’t an adult.”
PG: It doesn’t matter. It’s about someone treating you like an object and denying your humanity.
D: Precisely, yeah.
PG: And how it made you feel.
D: Yeah, I think, to this day, don’t ever feel like inside my body. Really I think that’s why I can do all the bizarre self-mutilation stuff that I’ve done in the past.
PG: I get emails from people, especially women, who, when they began to enter puberty, their fathers began to leer at them.
D: Oh god.
PG: They have trouble giving weight to it.
D: Right, that’s my dad.
PG: It’s the same-- because they say, “I wasn’t touched. Nothing was said.” But it doesn’t matter. It’s the dehumanizing, the objectifying.
D: The victimize-- you’re treated like a masturbatory aid or something. It’s fucking horrible. Rape is the worst fucking crime I think you could do. Because murder, someone’s dead. Rape, you have to live with that shit, for not only the initial, but-- anyways, it’s just a horrible thing.
PG: And all the battles in your head, because there’s that part of you that wants to tell yourself it didn’t happen and will come up with excuse after excuse to avoid feeling the pain and the truth of what really happened. Lucky are the people who can process it and get to that place of peace or semi-peace. Whereas a lot of people, it haunts them for the rest of their lives. Then very often, they have children, and if something happens to their child, they’re incapable of extending compassion to their child. That is the--
D: A cycle that just continues.
PG: --worst to me is then, the child who goes to their parent, and the parent shuts them down. That, to me, is one of the worst crimes. It should be a crime. It should be a crime when a child comes to you and reports a sexual assault and as a parent you don’t do anything. Or you belittle them, which is even worse.
D: Yeah, or it’s like a family member or sibling or whatever. It’s your aunt or something, and they don’t want to believe it. It’s just complicated. It’s tough. It’s tough.
PG: Before we finish talking about the sexual assault, what changed for you in terms of your interactions with other people, how you felt about yourself, how you felt about your body after that happened?
D: Yeah, that was a turning point. I didn’t realize it at the time.
PG: Had you attempted suicide before that?
D: No. No, I had no real any psychiatric issues at all. After that is when it started. I don’t know that that’s precipitated or caused it or whatever.
PG: When was the first suicide attempt? How old were you?
D: Like 17. 16, 17. It was pills. Most of these are just-- I don’t want to die. My fricking world view, I’m such an atheist and I really think death is complete utter nonexistence. So it’s not like I-- it was mostly a cry for help. Especially my family, we never talk about things. You communicate with 5150s I guess. [laughs]
PG: That’s pretty profound. That’s really profound. What a primitive language, that suicide attempt, cry for help, is.
D: There’s no bigger card you can play, other than killing yourself and dying. But the suicide attempt is purely like--
PG: It’s so raw and honest.
D: --hold the fucking phone. Stop it. Hold, stop everything. We’ve got to do something here. Anyways, after when I was 13, actually I remember we got a computer. We got the Internet. I just pretty much divide my life into pre-Internet and post-Internet, because it changed my life so much. Before the Internet, I used to go out and skateboard with my friends and hang out and go outside. Now I’m a total recluse and hermit. I just stay inside all the time. Yeah, after that, I pretty much just stayed indoors and on the computer mostly. I didn’t go out with my friends. Then we moved. I had to go to a different high school.
PG: How old were you when the Internet change came?
D: 14. The Internet actually figures into the paraphilia, the infantilism.
PG: Okay.
D: Yeah, I would play StarCraft with my friends online and stuff like that. But then I just gradually stopped talking to them. Then when I went to a different high school, they went to a different high school than me, we moved. I just couldn’t get new friends or I didn’t or I didn’t want to. I don’t know what the fuck. I just didn’t care anymore, and so I just didn’t have any friends. Still to this day, I’m still a total loner. Yeah, I think probably I was using the internet as an escape or numb-out or something like that. Obviously you don’t know it at the time, you’re just like, “Hey, I’m going to stay online 10 hours today. That’s totally normal and cool.”
[music plays]
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[music plays]
PG: Is that how you discovered that you liked paraphilia?
D: No, no no. I’ve had this for as long as I can remember.
PG: How old were you when you started masturbating?
D: Actually quite late. I kind of went through puberty sort of late. I was probably like 14, it was soon after. Late 14 almost. I was to the point where I was like, “Why aren’t I going through puberty? Everyone else is-- why aren’t I getting boners?”
PG: I was the same way. Well I had boners when I was about six, but--
D: I’ve had that too, actually, but I wouldn’t get an erection when I saw a woman or something. I was like, “What’s going on?” Then it would happen finally. But anyways, yeah so I was a little bit of a late-bloomer.
PG: Was the paraphilia a fantasy once you started masturbating? When did that come into your sexual map?
D: No, it’s been around-- it’s been in my whole-- for way before, for as long as I can remember.
PG: So before you were in puberty, it was something you wanted to happen, and then it became sexual once you hit puberty?
D: I remember getting erections when I was like five or six thinking about diapers. I guess it’s possible for someone that young to get-- I didn’t know that was possible. I thought I was like a freak or something. But yeah, it’s been around forever. I remember I totally knew it was weird and unusual. I didn’t talk about it to anyone. I remember I asked my parents one time like, “Buy me diapers.” I remember my mom said like, “Why don’t you just wear a bunch of underwear? Several pairs of underwear?” Which I still like. She didn’t just say no, she just gave me another option. For as long as I can remember I’ve had this and I’ve known it was weird. It’s always been a weird secret. This is a common thing, but I thought I was the only person on earth, when I was a kid, who had this. Then when I got the Internet, one day it fucking changed my life. I typed into Yahoo, I remember when people still used that. Pre-Google, even. I typed in “adult diaper”. I was like, “We’ll see what happens.” I think like the first-- goddamn, it’s hard for me to say that word, by the way. I’ve said it ten times in my life before this. But I found a website and it was called Big Babies webpage or something like that. I clicked on it--
PG: Is that the word that’s hard to say?
D: No, diaper. I can’t fucking say that word ever. It’s hard. I’m forcing myself, I’m trying to do this. But literally like ten times in my life before that, because I just can’t. It’s emotionally-charged. So yeah, I clicked on that website--
PG: Is shame the predominant emotion in saying that?
D: Yeah.
PG: Okay.
D: Yeah, I hate myself and I still think I’m a freak, even though I try to be cool with it and liberal. But so anyways, I clicked on this guy’s website, and the fucking first thing that loaded on the website was the background, and it was just this guy’s crotch with a diaper, like tiled, giant adult diaper staring at-- I was like, “Holy shit, other people do this and are into this.” It was such a cliché, it was like black and white to color, like the Wizard of Oz. Just that other people are like this, like, “What the hell else don’t I know?”
PG: What did it feel like?
D: It was a weight off my shoulders, definitely. I can’t even describe it. It’s just like you think you’re the only one, and then you find out you’re not. Just a little bit of your feeling like a freak or whatever goes away. But I mean I still struggle with it a little bit. I try to be cool with it. I don’t want to get counseling for it necessarily or try to stop, because it’s such a part of who I am.
PG: My thought is, why? Why would you? You’re not hurting anybody. There are other people that are into it.
D: Right. If it causes you distress, then you might want to get treatment for it. Sometimes it causes me distress. I feel a little alienated from society. But it’s just who I am, and I can’t-- even if I got years and years of therapy or whatever, I would still-- I’m just wired this way. I can’t do anything else.
PG: Can I ask you about the details of what it is that’s erotic about the experience? And the way you act and the way the other person acts? And who’s dressed how and what they say or do and how they touch you?
D: Sure.
PG: Or you touch them?
D: Sure, okay. Well it has to be a woman. Has to, has to, has to be a woman. Men taking care of me as a baby is just, ick, I don’t want that. It has to be a woman.
PG: You have no interest in men outside of the fetish?
D: No, I’m straight. I think I’m straight. Yeah, I want the fullest experience of being a baby that you can have.
PG: So would a bottle enhance it? Would being fed enhance it?
D: It’s just anything that, obviously diapers, just dressing like a baby is very erotic to me.
PG: Laying on your back?
D: Yeah, acting like a baby.
PG: Crying?
D: Crying is a little tough. I feel kind of self-conscious trying to do that necessarily.
PG: Talking like a baby?
D: Cooing, murmuring. I like women to be way bigger than me, and I like to be very small and for the woman to be in complete control of me and to be totally subservient.
PG: You to be totally subservient?
D: Yes. Yeah, like what I want doesn’t fucking matter at all, just like a baby. You don’t really ask a baby what they want. So I like the helplessness. I like the giving up control. I like the clothing and the smell. The fetish itself is very tactile. Every sense is represented. The smell of baby powder is insane to me. It has such a huge response. Just the smell of diapers, sometimes they have different perfume smells to them. The smells of that and just everything that smells like babyish stuff. Feel, the touch, the feel of a diaper. The feel of sleeper footie pajamas or a onesie. The sound of diapers, the crinkling sound I really like. If a woman sings to me. I just want the full baby experience. I don’t have to go into it like, “I’m going to drink a bottle.” Just however it happens, happens.
PG: It’s the energy of it, is that--?
D: Yeah, I just want to be a baby and have the woman treat me like a baby. I don’t want to have sex while I’m dressed like a baby, even though I’m pretty turned on while being dressed as such. Because babies don’t have sex. Afterwards, maybe. But during it, I wouldn’t want to have sex.
PG: So would you then take the diaper off and have sex with the woman--
D: Probably, just normal sex.
PG: -- as your adult selves?
D: Yeah, just two adults.
PG: Would you be then--
D: It would be like foreplay, I suppose.
PG: I see. And then would you be recalling while you’re having sex, or would you be present in the moment with that person?
D: It’s hard, I’ve only had sex one time-- several times, but with one person, so it’s hard for me to say precisely. I probably think about baby infantilism stuff to come, yeah. But I could perform sexually like a normal adult, I think. But yeah, I can’t just like have just a human female-- sexually mature human female, that just doesn’t do it for me. I don’t know. I just need this weird extra emotional component of helplessness and giving control and accoutrement of being a baby and all this stuff.
PG: But you don’t need it for the entire experience, you just need it to get yourself going?
D: Right. The sex part feels almost tacked onto it. There’s such an emotional component to it. It’s just like emotionally fulfilling when I’m doing it alone, or especially if I have-- I’ve only several times in my life-- few times have I actually been babied by a woman, and it’s an amazing--
PG: As you’re sharing this stuff with me, a couple of thoughts are popping into my mind. The first is, there’s such a healthy component to what it is you want. It seems to me that-- I don’t know, I’m not a therapist. I cooked chicken to John Hughes movies for 16 years.
D: [laughs] Dinner and a movie.
PG: But my thought is, is instead of getting rid of the fetish-- because it seems like now it’s the main course?
D: Yeah.
PG: How about the main course being emotional intimacy with that partner outside of the bedroom, and then the fetish being the dessert of it?
D: Right, yeah. There’s a way to make it work. Fortunately the only girlfriend I’ve had was cool with it.
PG: What did that feel like?
D: Fucking amazing, dude. Only a couple times in my life have I gotten that experience.
PG: What’d it feel like in your head, in your body, in your soul?
D: When she would hold me, and she would rock me. I just like to be held. Whenever I would see her, I would just go into her arms and not say anything. She’d be like, “What’s going on?” I would almost bum her out a little bit [laughs]. Just be like quiet and like, “Goddammit, I just need to be tiny and held.”
PG: Would you cry? Would you become overwhelmed with emotion, or was it just good--
D: No, I have a hard time crying around other people. It’s that male thing. It’s hard to cry necessarily or show emotion like that. But yeah, just the experience of being taken care of. When I’m either alone or being taken care of as a baby in baby-mode or whatever you call it, it’s like a minor religious experience. It’s like I feel transcendent, I feel like in my own body. My head quiets down. I’ll just drink a bottle one night or something, put the YouTube video of lullabies for two hours or whatever and drink a bottle. My heart rate slows down. Usually it’s kind of fast all the time. I just feel right for that time. I wish I could be a baby all the time. I would prefer that life, I think, to adulthood.
PG: What about a life in the future where that’s a component of it--
D: Yeah, it’s not realistic, I know.
PG: You know that?
D: Yeah, I-- I don’t know. It’s just tough for me socially in general. I’m incredibly awkward and I can’t connect with people.
PG: Right now you can’t. But I hope you have hope that that’s--
D: Yeah, it’s tough, dude. Depression--
PG: You’re 28 years old. I wish you knew how fucked up I was at 28. How much I masked my fear with arrogance. How I couldn’t laugh at myself. How I wanted to die. How I numbed myself. I wish just for ten seconds, I could pluck my 28-year soul out of the air and put it in you so you could feel--
D: [laughs] I’m pretty fucked up, I don’t know.
PG: So many of us in our 50s and 60s are fucked up. Dude, you’re so not alone. You’re so not alone and you’re so okay. You’re not out there hurting people. You’ve got this gentle, sweet spirit to yourself.
D: Oh, thanks.
PG: You’re likeable.
D: Thank you.
PG: As my friends say to me all the time, I wish you could see yourself through my eyes. I wish that for you, that you could see yourself through a healthy person’s eyes. Not you being unhealthy, I mean as opposed to us seeing ourselves through an unhealthy person’s eyes.
D: No, I get it.
PG: I wish that for you, that you will get to experience. Because that is transcendent.
D: Yeah, it’s all about human connection ultimately, as much as I isolate and stuff. That’s where it’s at. Humans need to be around other humans.
PG: Have you ever talked to a therapist about the assault?
D: No.
PG: Have you ever tried a free support group for survivors of sexual assault?
D: No, I feel like, again, like mine wasn’t bad enough. Like I’ll be sitting next to people who are worse. Yeah, probably I need to work it out in therapy or something. I feel like I haven’t done much for it.
PG: D, any person with experience in a support group for sexual assault who is really doing the work and paying attention will welcome you, will feel that you absolutely belong. Anybody that tells you you shouldn’t be there has not healed and is filtering it through their own shit. Trust me on that. Trust me.
D: Okay. Yeah, I’m going to-- I listen to this show all the time. You’re always talking about support groups and therapy and talking. I don’t talk about this, my feelings, with anyone ever. I have no support system almost.
PG: I didn’t either.
D: But then you have to go to a support group and forge friendships. It’s freakin hard, dude. I don’t know how to make friends anymore. I’m so awkward--
PG: It’s awkwardly new, but it’s--
D: --all the time.
PG: --it’s not. They have walked the path. The ones that have been there a while have walked the path that you’ve walked. While the circumstances may be different, the inner turmoil and the feelings are the same. That’s what’s important.
D: The dissociation and the numbness. I’m so numb all the time. I feel like I never feel anything really or I’m in my own body. It’s just weird. I don’t know, I don’t feel anything almost. Sadness, depression. I’m never happy. I’m just sometimes less depressed. I feel like, yeah, I need to be like a human being who feels emotions and can talk about emotions and stuff like that [laughs]. That’d be great. It feels like climbing Mount Everest, that level of having to work years and years and years. Fucking depression and like I can’t get myself to do anything.
PG: That’s the other thing about depression and anxiety is the need to extrapolate and predict. That’s the biggest waste of time, and it’s the biggest thing that keeps us-- not the biggest thing that keeps us stuck, but it’s one of the things that keeps us stuck, because--
D: What sucks about mental illness in general is like, it’s your fucking brain that’s sick.
PG: [laughs]
D: The thing that you’re going to use to try to navigate your way out of this is also the thing that is being affected. It’s unlike any other illness. It’s not like when you have liver cancer-- you still have your faculties and you can fucking deal with it. Mentally ill people are handicapped I think in that way, in that your own command center is fucking compromised.
PG: Yeah, it’s like a diabetic expecting sugar to save them [laughs].
D: Exactly, yeah, or “I’ll think my way out of this,” or something, Jesus.
PG: You can’t go to the invading army for a battle plan.
D: Exactly, don’t consult your own brain in war. You can’t trust that.
PG: Is there anything else you’d like to touch on before we wrap up?
D: Trying to think. Self-injury. We could talk about that a little bit.
PG: When did that start? What forms did it take?
D: Cutting, hitting. That’s about it.
PG: Where would you cut yourself?
D: My thighs and my stomach. You can see there, I have a giant scar.
PG: Yeah, those are pretty intense.
D: I started cutting, and then that was fine. I’d do weird stuff. I so am numb and associated all the time. One cut I would keep - it was this one, the big fat one - I kept cutting into it as it would heal. I don’t even know what the fuck that was. I just hate myself so much I would do anything to myself. One time I stuck a needle in my liver, like a sewing needle. I was just sticking needles in myself. That was a fucking horrible experience, actually. I lost the needle, like I couldn’t get it out, and I was like, “Uh oh. That’s in there.” [laughs] It’s my own dumb fault for sticking needles in myself, I guess.
PG: God, you’re so hard on yourself. You’re so hard on yourself, and I know that is the ultimate irony coming from me. But we need to hear it from other people. We need to hear it from other people, man.
D: So anyways I, obviously it migrated to a certain point and it started hurting all the time. Like every time I breathed, my lung would pull or something--
PG: Because the needle was still in there?
D: Yeah, it was lodged in my liver, and I remember I got one x-ray and they couldn’t find it. I was in horrible pain, I was like, “No, I swear to god there’s a needle in there. Please.” They sent me home, and I went to an emergency room and I got another x-ray and they finally looked at it several times, and they finally saw the needle. I knew there was a needle in there. It was not-- but no one around me believed me, and I was in horrible pain. It was just the worst experience.
PG: I can’t’ imagine. Oh my god.
D: Dude, it was like the boy who cried wolf or something. It was just like, “No, I’m serious. I’m not mentally-- I mean, I am mentally ill, but there’s also something here.”
PG: Not about this, not about this.
D: Right. I got a second x-ray, they finally found it. I was like, “Thank god.” They had to surgically remove it.
PG: When it came out, were you able to finish the afghan?
D: [laughs] That’s why you’re the professional. You’re the comedy professional, Paul. So yeah, that was interesting. Also the hitting. I would hit myself with a hammer. Mostly my stomach and abdomen. But I would hit myself in the head with a hammer. Like a real hammer, like a claw hammer. Like you nail two-by-fours together with.
PG: What would it feel like when you would hit yourself in the head with a hammer? Would it be pleasurable?
D: No. That was my lowest point I think. When I was hitting myself in the head, that was like lower than suicide.
PG: What was the payoff?
D: I just hated myself, and I just hated myself and I wanted to hurt myself.
PG: Did it feel like truth to you? Like you were--
D: I just wanted to hurt myself. I don’t know, I probably hated my brain for being mentally ill. Maybe I was like hurting my brain, trying to hurt my brain or something, I don’t know. I still worry that I did brain damage and I have like [inaudible] traumatic and stuff like [inaudible] ears or something. Like the NFL players and boxers and shit, like, “Oh Jesus.”
PG: I’m sorry, but I cut a thought off from you with that last question. Was there a thought that you wanted to finish?
D: Oh yeah yeah, so when I was hitting myself in the head [laughs] with the hammer, yeah that was low. That was the lowest. I think that was worse than suicide for me. Because I didn’t even want to die. I didn’t care about dying. At least with suicide, you have some sort of goal in mind and you’re working towards it. There’s even some grain of hope that you will feel better after you die or you won’t be in pain or whatever. This was not even-- I didn’t even care to die. I was like beyond suicidal. I just didn’t care. I didn’t care about my own fucking brain.
PG: Where do you feel like you’re at today compared to that lowest low? If that was a zero and ten is like your best moments.
D: I’d say I probably exist, if I’m being honest, like a five maybe.
PG: Well I think I speak for every single listener listening to this episode right now, is we feel so much compassion. We’re rooting for you so hard, and I think we are all on the same page in hoping for you that you get--
D: Yeah, we’ll see.
PG: --the therapy and the support that you deserve. But as one of my friends always says, we can vote all you want, but your vote is the only one that really counts. Well D, thank you so much for sharing--
D: Thank you, Paul.
PG: --and helping us get to know you.
Many thanks to D for talking about a lot of stuff that I think probably wasn’t easy to talk about. So many thanks to him. Before we take it out with some surveys, a big ol’ stack o’ surveys, want to remind you guys there’s a couple of different ways to support the show if you feel so inclined. It means a lot to me, I’m not putting pressure on you. Just saying, help me. You can go to the website and you can make either a one-time PayPal donation, or my favorite thing in the whole world, sign up and become a monthly donor for as little as five bucks a month. Once you set it up, you don’t have to do anything unless you want to cancel or your credit card expires. I really really appreciate the people that are monthly donors. It is the financial footing that allows this show to keep going and for me to keep my focus on doing it. You can also support us by shopping through our Amazon search portal. It’s on the home page right hand side, about halfway down. Not to be confused with the search box for our site itself. It doesn’t cost you anything. Amazon gives us a couple of nickels. You can also support us non-financially by going to iTunes, giving us a good rating, writing something nice about us. That definitely helps. And spreading the word about us through social media. That really really helps. There’s a subreddit called mentalpod. You can spread the word through Reddit. I got bored with that whole thing about 30 seconds ago [laughs]. I was just on fucking autopilot. Let’s get to the surveys, huh? Shall we? Let us do it.
This is an email that I got from a listener named Lee. I was just so touched by it I wanted to read it to you guys. She writes, “I’m happy to tell you that my boyfriend and I had a fear-off and a love-off, and it was pretty big moment in our relationship. After nearly a week of on-and-off arguments and doubting our relationship, this really helped to strengthen us and pull us together. I feel like it’s a perfect way to open up communication about feeling without judgment attached. I struggle with his judgment on a regular basis. Most of the time, my feelings and thoughts come out in a flood during an argument and he just check out emotionally, which in turn, upsets me even more. This conversation was so different. It was calm and controlled. For the first time in a long time, I felt heard, and I think it helped open his eyes to a deeper side of himself. He’s even agreed to do a follow-up fear-off in a couple of weeks.” I love that. I tell ya, fears and loves can tell you a lot about, not only somebody, but where they’re at.
This is from the I Shouldn’t Feel This Way survey, filled out by Jane. I just wanted to read a couple excerpts from it. If you had a time machine, how would you use it: “I would like to know what made my father such a terrible father. What made him so angry and so detached from his children. Why alcohol and drugs were more of a priority than his family.” Well if he was an alcoholic, it’s because he was an alcoholic, and that is part of the sickness. Doesn’t excuse it, but that’s the reason. It’s not about not loving other people, it’s about loving alcohol and drugs, just not being able to function without them. “I’m supposed to miss my father and I don’t. I feel relief that he’s dead. I’m supposed to see him as this wonderful guy because everyone else does, but he was a liar. He made people think he was so great while he treated his family like crap. I’m supposed to be happy that he left me an inheritance. I don’t, and I don’t want it because I feel like it is just one more way for him to control me from the grave.” How does writing that make you feel: “I feel guilty, but he was such a narcissistic prick. I feel free of him now that he is gone. I feel free to spend my time for me and make decisions for me. When he was alive, it was all about what he wanted.” I would imagine there are a gazillion family members of alcoholics and drug addicts that feel exactly like that. My heart goes out to you, especially because I’m somebody that mistreated loved ones through my addiction and alcoholism. So on behalf of us boozy druggy fuck ups, I’m sorry that you guys have to put up with us, but there are solutions. Thank god I found one.
Same survey filled out by a woman who calls herself Bad Mama. What would you like people to say about you at your funeral? “She was brave. Not because she was fearless, but because despite fear, she said, ‘Fuck it, I can do it. Watch me.’” How does writing that make you feel: “Silly but proud. I know that despite my various shortcomings, at least that is true.” If you had a time machine, how would you use it: “I’d go far far into the future. Far beyond the years I could even possibly live to see. As close to the fall of humanity I can get. I want to see how it ends.” That’s a great one. “I’m supposed to feel lucky to be straight, but I don’t. I feel being a lesbian would be so much more fulfilling and a hell of a lot easier. I’m supposed to feel happy and free that I quit smoking, but I don’t, I feel trapped. I feel a petulant juvenile need to rebel. Even though I’m 35, I’m supposed to feel lucky and fulfilled that I’m able to stay at home with my 15-month-old daughter, but I don’t. I feel angry and resentful that because I am the mom and because I made less money, I was the one who had to quit my job. I hate being stuck at home, and I don’t want to be a fucking housewife. I don’t want my daughter to ever see me that way. I never wanted this kind of life.” How does it make you feel to write your feelings out: “Tired.” Do you think you’re abnormal for feeling what you do: “Nope, but I do feel the need to add that I love my daughter and husband, as if anyone reading this would doubt I could feel that way, too.” Would knowing other people feel the same way make you feel better about yourself: “I know many feel the same way. I would feel better about myself to actually meet, hear more from, or speak to women who had similar feelings.” I encourage you to go to the forum. I started a thread called “being a mom”. So search for that and post there. I think you’ll find a lot of kindred spirits there. Any comments to make the show better: “Any aging punk-rock feminist moms with fucked up childhoods would be a plus.” I agree. If you’re in the LA area and you fit that description, I’d love to have you on.
Same survey. This was filled out by a guy who calls himself Cane Aloha. He writes, what would you like people to say about you at your funeral: “That I was a happy guy that loved his family and enjoyed getting the most out of life.” How does writing that make you feel: “It gives me that sadness that you can feel in your gut. It makes me feel like I want to cry. It’s like I’m missing out on something, but I don’t know what it is.” If you had a time machine, how would you use it: “I have no idea. I don’t think I would want to go back and observe any part of my life. I’m supposed to feel happy about seeing my family when I get home from work and they are excited to see me, but I don’t. I feel overwhelmed by the attention and sad that I cannot give it to them.” How does it make you feel to write your feelings out: “I feel like it doesn’t change anything, and that makes me more sad.” Do you think you’re abnormal for feeling what you do: “Absolutely. I feel like I should be able to enjoy life to the fullest, but instead, I just feel disconnected from everyone and everything.” Would knowing other people feel the same way make you feel better about yourself: “Not really.” Well I’m going to add this anyway. Dude, that sounds like depression to me. Who knows where that is coming from, but I felt exactly that way. Exactly that way. A smile felt like I was lifting a hundred-pound weight. Being around people felt like sandpaper. I had to go to talk to somebody about that to find out where the depression was coming from. I encourage you that-- something like that, who knows? It could just be a chemical thing that can be adjusted with meds. Maybe talk therapy. But you deserve it and your family deserves for you to feel good.
This is from a rarely-taken survey called the Young Male Abused by Older Female survey. This is filled out by a guy who calls himself So Very Tired. He is straight, in his 30s. He writes, “I was 14 and she was maybe 36. She was married and had kids and lived in our general area. This was back in the days before the Internet and the local network of computers called BBSs were more in use. I ended up meeting her via messages on one of these, and one day when my dad was working but she was off, she came by. I told my sister this was a family friend, and she hung out at my place. She brought me wine, which I didn’t want to go through with. Not because I wasn’t horny - I was a 14-year-old, I was very much so - but because I found her hideous. She was old and overweight. I knew she’d driven that far out there and took such a chance, and also I didn’t want to hurt her feelings or disappoint her, screw it up, right? So I went through with it. It was awful. I pretended to break down just to get her to leave, even though I didn’t finish. Before she left, she asked me, ‘But what am I going to do for the rest of the day?’ and I was so mad that she was trying to make that my problem. I felt like I was the real adult in the situation, only I was operating off of some messed up wiring. Later she tried to contact me, but I told her my dad found out and if she ever did it again, he was going to tell the police. My dad didn’t know, I was just ashamed and didn’t want anyone else to know. My parents still don’t know. I’m 35 now.” Remembering these things, what feelings come up: “Shame and sadness mostly. I’m tearing up a little, and I really wasn’t expecting that. I thought I had this aspect of my past well under control, but I suppose not.” Sending a big hug your way, buddy.
This is from the Happy Moments survey filled out by Natalie. She writes, “My dad is my flawed hero. Aside from myself - fuck yeah, self-love moment - he is the most important human being in my life. After watching my mother grieve the death of her estranged father, I made it a point to recognize and cherish simple moments with my dad so that, through my inevitable and profound loss, I will have joy, too. Although I am in no way religious or believe in god, I take my father’s hand before every meal and pray with him. I pay no attention to the words that I’ve recited a million times before, and instead, note the weight, the warmth in every wrinkle of his hand in mine as we bless another meal together.” That is beautiful. Thank you for that, Natalie.
This is from the Shame and Secrets survey filled out by a woman who just calls herself <3. This is just a section of this. Under deepest darkest secrets she writes, “Not a dark secret, but something I want to get off my chest. Background: I’ve been diagnosed with borderline personality disorder, depression, social anxiety, etc. I feel like a fucking weirdo all the time, and I have trouble even speaking in school. I don’t even feel like I relate to people in the proper way to make them like me.” By the way, she’s in her 20s. “When we have class discussions, I feel like there’s something stuck in my mouth and I can’t speak. Lately I’ve been getting drunk once a month and meeting a random guy off the internet. I let them pick me up. Already drunk, I don’t drive drunk, so at least that’s a plus. We hang out, and I proceed to get totally obliterated, and then I touch them sexually. They consent to this. I make out with them--“ Hey. Give it a break, would ya? [laughs] I’ve got a pile of surveys on the floor, and my dogs are trying to make a bed out of it. Rewinding: “They consent to this. I make out with them. I don’t have full-on sex, but it still makes me feel shitty, like, ‘Why am I doing this? I know I’m attractive, I don’t need the affirmation.’ It’s like I want to fuck my head up even more. I also get very angry and cuss, cry, tell them I want to die. Refuse to let them drop me off afterwards. I become a different person. I fucking hate that I do this. It’s a weird and shitty ‘habit’.” Sending a big hug your way. I can’t imagine how difficult living with borderline personality disorder and those other things on top of that has got to be. I really hope that you’re going to see somebody, because that is a lot on your plate. You’re not doing those things because you’re a bad person. We do stuff that shames us sometimes because we don’t know how to process things that we’re feeling that are overwhelming. One of the hallmarks of borderline personality disorder is that your feelings are super super super intense. So reach out for help.
This is from the Shame and Secrets survey filled out by a guy who calls himself Knick Knack. He is straight, in his 20s, raised in a stable and safe environment, never been sexually abused. Deepest darkest thoughts: “Killing myself in a busy intersection so that everyone will see.” Deepest darkest secrets: “Attempted suicide a few times. Pills: vomited. Bag on head with duct tape: ripped off. Masturbate excessively to porn since 12 years old. Focuses on incest, bestiality, interracial porn. Father shamed me after discovering one of the first two. I still don’t know which one he saw.” By the way, I was at work one time when I was like 20 years old. I was working in the same building for the same company as my dad. I was down in the, whatever you want to call it, the store that they have at the bottom of big buildings where they sell snacks and stuff like that. They had a magazine rack, and I’m thumbing through the magazines, and I see this magazine called Jugs Magazine. I kind of chuckle, because I’m like, “Wow. That just--“ I don’t know. I picked it up and I started looking through it [laughs] and all of a sudden I hear his voice behind me, “Is this what you do on your lunch hour?” I didn’t even try to say anything. I was like, “Yep. The September issue of Jugs.” Let’s see, sexual fantasies most powerful to you: “Girls having anal sex/insertions, girls talking about themselves in nasty ways, white girls obscenely worshipping well-endowed black men. Women being debased and demented and depraved turns me on the most. At the same time, women expressing sexuality in a public arena sometimes makes me resentful, i.e. they should belong to me. They shouldn’t be acting that way. Weird hypocrisy, huh? I think the interracial porn addiction is more pervasive problem for men, though it’s so humiliating, we may never hear enough about it. Oh, and taking this survey and reading everyone else’s perversions also turns me on.” Would you ever consider telling a partner or close friend: “Yes I have before, but usually doesn’t go over well. I guess I haven’t met the right woman, or maybe I should take this stuff to the grave. I don’t know. I wouldn’t share my woman with another man though, but definitely want to be kinky with her in any one-on-one way possible.” I think the biggest hurdle is going to be to begin to see - this sounds obvious, and I hope it doesn’t sound condescending - but to see women in a context that isn’t sexual. So that then when you see them in a sexual context, it’s not such a large part of how you see them. It took me a long time to get to that place. It’s not easy. But it can be done.
This is same survey, filled out by a woman who calls herself Rosen. She is asexual, in her 20s, was raised in a pretty dysfunctional environment. Never been sexually abused. Deepest darkest thoughts: “I will never admit to anyone that I think about having sex with prepubescent girls 9 to 13.” Deepest darkest secrets: “I think I got herpes from my first boyfriend. I get tested regularly, and none of my tests have come back positive for anything, but I experienced symptoms that I’m sure are an STD.” Sexual fantasies most powerful to you: “I fantasize a lot about anal sex. I have had anal sex on occasion, but not that often. I switch perspectives from being the one doing the fucking to an impassive third party just watching it happen. The sex is always very rough, though not violent, and the person receiving the sex often a waifish, pale girl or boy is completely overcome by it. I get off on watching as someone is required, forced to completely let go.” Would you ever consider telling a partner or close friend: “I’ve mentioned it to my partner.” Do these secrets or thoughts generate any particular feelings towards yourself: “A little shame in how much I like power play. I want to both be annihilated and to erase people who have some power over me.” Thank you for sharing that, Rosen.
Same survey filled out by Rose! Only one letter different from the previous one. She’s in her 20s, bisexual, qualifies “I don’t know.” Was raised in a stable and safe environment, although she qualifies, “Haven’t done much reflection on this. I think I should.” Deepest darkest thoughts: “I look down on other people.” Deepest darkest secrets: “Mostly just dark thoughts. I rarely ever do things at all. I try to be someone I’m not to be liked by some guy I still have feelings for and fail because I still wasn’t good enough.” Sexual fantasies most powerful to you: “Unintentional weight gain, especially in men. Also watching someone binge, over-eat, clothes getting too tight, etc. I assume it’s because I have fears of gaining weight, myself. I’ve had these kinds of fantasies for as long as I can remember having sexual fantasies. It’s the only way I can get off. Also I think it’s mostly men because I don’t feel as bad when it happens to them. With women, it’d hit closer to home, and I’d really like to feel more connected to other women than I do now.” Would you ever consider telling a partner or close friend: “I’ve told a former partner. He didn’t really get the ‘unintentional’ part, and intimacy felt very weird afterwards. I don’t plan on telling future partners.” That kind of bums me out, because I just feel like that’s really a part of intimacy, is letting all of that part be seen of you. Especially the part that you’re afraid is going to be judged.
This is an email I got from a listener who, I forgot to ask her how she wants to be referred to, so I’ll just give her the initial B. She was asking me some questions about her therapist. She’s thinking about quitting her therapist and finding a different one. I’m just going to read some excerpts. She writes, “When I vent and pronounce words wrong, she corrects me every time. Instead of discussing why I have panic attacks, she took the whole session time to explain how they happen. I do know what happens when you have a panic attack. I’ve had them for over seven years now. We were talking about my inability to let things go, accept them, and how I obsess for years over small stuff that happens to all of us. Therapist: ‘So have you ever tried to just let things go?’ Me: ‘Well I have. I know intellectually that many things I obsess about are irrelevant for everyone but me.’ Therapist: ‘Try to put all those things you cannot let go of in a bag and throw it off of a mental cliff, and then just let go.’ ‘I tried that, but it doesn’t work.’ ‘Well then you just have to live with it or get over it.’ Give her the fucking-- that cane on the Showtime at the Apollo. Have your last session be you come in with that cane and you just pull her out of her office. Then you take over her office and you start seeing people. If she questions you, just refer her to this episode. But seriously, find another therapist, because she really does not sound empathic at all. I think an empathic therapist, a therapist who has empathy-- I think that therapist thinks this is like an intellectual endeavor. She sounds very cut off from her feelings, and fuck her.
This is from the Shame and Secrets survey filled out by a woman who calls herself Attention Seeker. She’s straight, in her 30s, was raised in an environment that was a little dysfunctional. Never been sexually abused. Deepest darkest thoughts: “Completely quitting my life, husband and two kids, and just starting over somewhere new.” Deepest darkest secrets: “I have slept with two men during my marriage and currently am tied emotionally to three males outside of my marriage. By email, primarily, but one male it’s a frequent full-on physical act.” Sexual fantasies most powerful to you: “I love thinking about being with a man, fucking him, and then going home to my husband and fucking him, knowing that he is sucking and licking on parts of me that another man recently has.” I’m going to give my two cents here. It sounds like you’re up against a sex and love addiction. It sounds pretty serious, and I think if you don’t talk to somebody about that or get some type of help, I think it’s going to definitely destroy your marriage. I don’t know if you care about protecting your marriage, but something that intense is not going to go away on its own.
Shame and Secrets survey filled out by a guy who calls himself Zorros. He is straight, in his 30s. Was raised in an environment that was a little dysfunction. I just wanted to read his deepest darkest thought. “I fantasize constantly about my wife - now ex-wife - getting killed in a car accident, because it would mean relationship and financial freedom, because I would’ve gotten a large life insurance payout. My mom, who died of breast cancer in 2006, was diagnosed in 1992 and was on chemo all throughout my high school years. I used to be happy on the day she got chemo, because it would weaken her to the point she couldn’t walk upstairs to where my room was, and I could actually have some privacy.” That is fucking heavy. I think, while my mom never had cancer or chemo, I know that feeling of just wanting to be left alone. So I’m sending you a hug, and let go of that guilt.
This is from the Happy Moments survey filled out by a guy who calls himself Big Red Truck. He writes, “My family and I were staying in a holiday home for the weekend. I was completely racked with anxiety and could not stop living in the past. I sent the kids to bed, and a few minutes later, I decided to go say goodnight. My little five-year-old girl was in a red sleeping bag, and when I was saying goodnight, she said to me completely out of the blue, ‘I will always love you, dad. You remember that, okay?’ I said to her, ‘Okay.’ She held out her right hand and said, ‘It’s a deal,’ and I grabbed her hand and I said, ‘Deal.’ For a few moments my anxiety lifted, and I was fighting back tears of joy.” Thank you for sharing that.
This is from the Shame and Secrets survey filled out by a guy who calls himself Rockstar. I just want to read his sexual fantasy. “I want women to be obsessed with me. To desire me in every way possible. To not be able to get enough of me, especially sexually. I want to know that they’re somewhere out there--“ I think he meant to say “someone out there”, “--whose every sexual need I meet, and to feel desired and lusted after. I think it would be awesome to have two women fight over me.” That would feel good. In theory.
From a Happy Moments survey-- and please, if you haven’t filled these out, it’s one of my favorite surveys to read. So please go fill it out. The more sublime your happy moment is, the better. She writes, “Playing bingo at a late-night event on my school’s campus. I ended up there randomly and had a great time. I just remember thinking, ‘Wow, I just happened to be walking by, and now I’m sitting here playing bingo with a bunch of freshmen, and it’s the most fun I’ve had in years.’ Either my life is really lame, or I seriously need a break.” I love that.
This is from Shame and Secrets survey. If you guys haven’t noticed, Shame and Secrets headlines. Struggle in a Sentence is the M.C., the opening act. Shouldn’t Feel This Way are one of the other ones, feature act. But Shame and Secrets has to headline. Filled out by Jane C. She’s straight, in her 20s, was raised in a pretty dysfunctional environment. Ever been the victim of sexual abuse: some stuff happened, but I don’t know if it counts. “Last year I went through the toughest battle with depression in my life so far. I was drinking to the point of getting blackout drunk often, and one night I was drinking alone. I ended up calling one my guy-friends who I knew for about three years, and I drove drunk to his house. There, I just became more drunk, and the next thing I remember was being naked on his bed with his silhouette above me. In the morning it was really awkward, and I just tried to act like it was not that big of a deal because we were friends, because I felt like it was my fault since I was drunk and because I was the one who drove to his house.” By the way, never anybody’s fault for being drunk or going over to somebody’s house. “I feel so ashamed of myself, and I constantly go back and forth being mad at my friend and feeling guilty for what I did. I am still friends with him because I am afraid that he will tell all our friends if I blame him.” Deepest darkest thoughts: “I find much younger pre-teens attractive at times. I think about seducing them and taking their virginity. With me being an older experienced girl, I feel like they would end up enjoying it.” I would preface that by saying please don’t. Their bodies may enjoy it, but it will damage them later. I’m sure you’re not actually thinking about doing it, but I just had to add that. Deepest darkest secrets: “When I was younger, my older cousin and I used to kiss and touch each other’s genitals often. As we got older we stopped, and I would get angry at him for touching me in a way I felt was weird. Even if he just tried to tickle me, I would feel a bit violated. However, I ended up touching and kissing my younger cousin the same way for a few years. It all stopped by the time I was maybe 12. I feel scared that I’ve passed down what my older cousin did to me, to my younger cousin. I wonder if it has affected my younger cousin mentally and if she has ever told anyone.” I think you should go talk to somebody, because these are pretty heavy things on your plate. Many of them are in an area that isn’t clearly defined, and that is what talk therapy or support groups is so so great for. So sending you a big hug. Be kind to yourself. Stop beating yourself up, and open up to somebody.
This is from the Shame and Secrets survey filled out by a guy who calls himself Griff. He is bisexual, in his 20s, was raised in a totally chaotic environment. Ever been the victim of sexual abuse: some stuff happened, but I don’t know if it counts. “When I was nine years old, a boy four years older introduced me to BDSM porn.” Right away, yes, sexual abuse. “Over a year, things progressed beyond the porn, and the older boy started touching me and asking me to expose myself to him. Before long, I eventually performed oral on him multiple times, and he penetrated me once. We also acted out many of the activities in the BDSM porn with him as the dom and me as the sub. I never ejaculated because my body did not work yet. I remember feeling happy that he liked me and wanted me. I try to convince myself that I didn’t enjoy it and that the only motivation I had for tolerating it was to escape home. But I know looking back that I enjoyed and even craved the attention he gave me.” There’s nothing wrong with that. That is so human, to crave that attention. That’s what happened with me, with the kid that was four years older than me. But he abused me. He abused me, and he didn’t do nearly what this guy did. So forgive yourself. Deepest darkest thought: “Think about killing myself on occasion.” Deepest darkest secrets: “I obsess about losing weight and keeping the weight off. I eat about 1,100 calories a day and I throw food away that I tell my girlfriend I ate. I take food out of the fridge and throw it away, including the ingredients for dishes that I tell my girlfriend I cooked, though I never did. I know I shouldn’t do this, but every time I think of gaining weight, I can’t stand the thought.” Sexual fantasies most powerful to you: “I fantasize about being made to serve or perform for women. Aside from the fact that my partners in these fantasies are women, many of the acts in my fantasies are otherwise identical to my experiences in childhood.” Would you ever consider telling a partner or close friend: “I’ve told my girlfriend some of my fantasies, but only with great difficulty and shame.” Did these secrets and thoughts generate any particular feelings towards yourself: “I hate with a visceral passion that these activities have wormed their way into my brain. That I have to think about these activities to climax means that the older boy from my childhood has shaped me in an essential way, and that he has power over me 15 years later. I feel like I will never escape him, and I hate myself for being unable to change this.” Buddy, I’m giving you a big hug, because I relate to that as well. Being drank in by my mom and the way that she treated my body has left me with a very very powerful sexual fantasy about being looked at. Wanting to be the center of attention or women to look at me. A lot of shame for a lot of years about that. I’m letting it go. I know where it comes from and I wish it wasn’t there, because it just feels so kind of pathetic and needy. But I know other people have that. I know other people. My wife’s a pretty open-minded person, so we’re able to work it into our fantasies, and she doesn’t have any problem with it. Sometimes I feel silly, but that’s what love is, man.
This is from the Shame and Secrets survey filled out by a woman who calls herself Beth. She’s bisexual, in her 20s. Was raised in a pretty dysfunctional environment, never been sexually abused. Deepest darkest thoughts: “I’m afraid that I am a fraud. That I am not actually an artist. I’m afraid that someday the people I have let into my life and begun to trust will realize how horrible I am and abandon me. I’m afraid that everything I do is tainted by my childhood, and being abused physically and emotionally - not sexually - and that I will never be able to discern the truth from reality.” Deepest darkest secrets: “I strongly believe that I was hearing the voice of god for the entirety of 2009. I see things. I sometimes cannot tell what is real. In the past few years, I have gotten as close as outside of a hospital ready to check myself in 12 times before giving up and going home out of fear that I wasn’t bad enough. I’ve started wandering around my high-crime neighborhood at night in hopes of getting killed accidentally so I don’t have to do it myself.” I just want to send you a big hug. Sexual fantasies most powerful to you: “I’m generally very focused on control. I like to perform oral sex on men and women alike and not let them touch me at all. I would like to be able to tie someone down and fuck them, but not in a violent or aggressive way, just one where I have complete control.” Would you ever consider telling a partner or close friend: “Yes. Though it’s not a fantasy as much as the only way I’m capable of engaging sexually with another person. I’ve had partners get angry with me when I told them I do not like to be touched.” Do these secrets and thoughts generate any particular feelings towards yourself: “Guilt. Annoyance at myself for not being able to engage in basically mutual sexual activity without turning it into a power struggle. I wish I could just get rid of my control issues.” Beth, I am giving you a big hug. Take that step. You qualify for help. You qualify for help, and you deserve it. So please go talk to somebody, and it will help with all of those things.
This is from the Shame and Secrets survey filled out by a female who calls herself Bisabella. She is straight, in her 30s, was raised in a pretty dysfunctional environment, never been sexually abused. Deepest darkest thoughts: “I think about older men raping children. I think about killing myself.” Deepest darkest secrets: “I lead on an older man who gives me money. I’ve never had sex with him.” Sexual fantasies most powerful to you: “Father getting drunk, coming home from the bar, and having sex with his daughter. Religious father being so in love with his young daughter that he marries her. In most of my fantasies, I am the man.” Would you ever consider telling a partner or close friend: “Yes.” How do these make you feel? Do these generate any particular feelings towards yourself: “Not really. I do have father issues, but never any sexual abuse. I feel like it is the extremity of human capability that arouses me. Sometimes I wonder if I should worry about these fantasies or if they come from some inner issues.” It sounds to me like you’ve got them in a pretty healthy place. They’re in your head and you’re willing to share them with somebody you trust. That sounds healthy to me.
This is from the Happy Moments survey filled out by Chris, and he writes-- either he or she. Yeah, he. “The first one that comes to mind would be the night that I told my girlfriend I loved her for the first time. We were laying in bed about to go to sleep when I looked her in the eyes and told her. I knew the time was right because I literally could not wait one more second without telling her. We stayed up for a while after that just talking, and she remarked how she hadn’t seen me that happy in the time we’d known each other.” That’s sweet.
One more Shame and Secrets and then two more Happy Moments. You like how I just kind of passively aggressively apologized? I was afraid that it’s getting too long. This is just a section from the Shame and Secrets survey. She calls herself Atoire Noir. Does that mean dark flower? Is that what that means? Deepest darkest secrets: “I want to be an escort and have sex with rich men for money. No strings attached or emotions involved. I’ve come close and have a somewhat of an arrangement with one older man. He spoils me with money and trips, and I feel no shame in essentially using him. I feel that it is a mutually beneficial agreement. He gets to sleep with a young, attractive woman and I get paid for it.”
This is from Happy Moments survey filled out by Kristen. Kristen Brown. She writes, “I was the only one of my brothers or sisters on the school bus on the way home. It was cold. I just remember my dad waiting for me at the end of the driveway, so I ran to him. I don’t know if he waited ever for anyone else, but that was nice.” I love those little sweet moments that stick with us. What a perfect example of one.
This last one is from Happy Moments filled out by Elli. She writes, “A happy moment was staying at my grandmother’s house after school, and sometimes in the days it would rain, she would gather us kids - a total of five grandkids staying with her after school - and tell us, ‘It’s time for raindrops.’ She would stop everything she was doing no matter what, go in the kitchen, and make donut batter from scratch. Drop them in hot grease, roll them in sugar, and sit with us on the porch watching the rain, eating raindrops, and singing. I was about eight, and I actually suffered from anxiety and depression early on. This however is one of those very few moments in my childhood that I remember feeling safe, happy, and loved. My grandmother has passed away and taken her recipe for raindrops with her, but nothing will ever take away this wonderful warm and loving memory. The warmest part of this whole story is that I have now learned that even though she was not an educated woman and had never heard of mental health or psychiatry, she was very much in touch with my emotional wellbeing. Raindrops were a thing she made up to cheer me up and distract me from my low points, get me to sing and to talk. Raindrops always came at the right time and did make me feel warm and safe, and it would get me through the day. What a happy moment.” Yeah, I agree. What a beautiful happy moment, and what a great moment to end the show on.
Thank you guys for listening. Thank you for helping create this community. Thanks to D. I’m looking forward to seeing some of you guys in Toronto. If you’re out there and you’re feeling stuck, you are most definitely not alone. There is hope if you’re willing to ask for help. Thanks for listening.
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