07/06/2012 In Podcast Episodes
Listener Simone
Episode is no longer available.
Episode notes:
Be sure to visit Simone's blog at www.sayitsimone.com
Episode Transcript:
Paul: Welcome to episode 68 with my guest Simone. I’m Paul Gilmartin, this is The Mental Illness Happy Hour, an hour of honesty about all the battles in our heads; from medically diagnosed conditions to everyday compulsive, negative thinking; feelings of dissatisfaction, disconnection, inadequacy, and that vague, vague, sinking feeling—I’m not gonna retake that, fuck that, I’m on a roll! That vague, sinking feeling that the world is passing us by. You give us an hour; we’ll give you a hot ladle of awkward and icky. This show is not meant to be a substitute for professional, mental counseling. It’s not a doctor’s office. It’s more like a waiting room that hopefully does not suck. And if you’re English, does not sucketh.
Oh boy, I-I’m really hot with jokes tonight. Um, the website for the show is, uh, mentalpod.com, um mentalpod is also my Twitter name if you want to follow me there. Go to the website, there’s all kinds of good stuff there. There’s a survey you can take. Um, there’s one about Shame and Secrets. Another one about Boys and Babysitters. Um, and another one that’s new about—where I ask people to try to sum up their Struggle in a Sentence. And, uh, getting some, some interesting, interesting responses there. I also started a-a thread on my, on my Facebook, uh, page, and people are chipping in on that. We’ve had, like, 40 or 50 people post, post that. Sometimes I think that’s the easiest way to let other people kind of understand what it is that you’re experiencing, um if you can sum it up in a, you know, either a metaphor or some type of analogy or something. Like this one person, um, I don’t know if it was on Twitter or on Facebook, they said that living with anxiety is like the room is full of balloons and you’re a porcupine. And I was, like, man, that—I-I would love to get you guys to fill the survey out and start—whatever your struggle is, try to put it into, into words, because I think ultimately that’s gonna help people understand, understand us better.
Um, also on the website, um there’s a forum, um. And in addition also to taking the survey, you can see how other people responded, which I think is fascinating, especially the Shame and Secrets survey, where people let out their, uh, deepest, darkest stuff. You can sign up for the newsletter at the website. Um, I, uh—Oh, I meant to—the first hundred people that signed up for the newsletter—I hadn’t given you the option at that point of checking boxes for what specific types of news you wanted to get. So if you would go back and update your profile that would be awesome. If you remember checking those boxes when you signed up for the newsletter, you don’t need to go back and do it. Um, and you can also read blogs and stuff at the, uh, at the website. And, as if this, uh, isn’t long enough, uh, there is now an iPhone app, um, it’s, uh—the application is called Podcast Box and it’s for a variety of, um, different podcasts, mine being one of them. It’s $2.99 and you need to go search for it in the iPhone app section of iTunes. Um, I wasn’t able to find it when I just tried to search for it in iTunes in general. So click on iPhone apps, find Podcast Box, buy it, once you install it, then go to the Health category and you’ll see mine and you download, I think, like the last 20 episodes or something like that. (Transcriber’s notes: This is now known as The Podcast Source, and it’s free. It includes all past episodes.)
All right. Enough of my yakking. Let’s, uh, let’s kick things off with, uh, a couple of, a couple of surveys that I, uh, want to read. This one is from the—I think this is, yeah—this is from the Shame and Secrets survey, and this is by a gay male who calls himself The Borderline Bitch Squealer. Um, he’s in his twenties. And, “Deepest darkest thoughts?” He writes, “sometimes I wish, uh, a member of my family or one of my friends died so then I would finally have a reason to scream.”
Uh, “Most powerful sexual fantasies?” He writes, “ I have this thing. This thing for this guy. I would do him any and every single way I could. Even the disgusting ones.”
“Would you ever consider telling a partner or close friend?” He writes, “No. I’m a disgusting person.” This guy is right up my alley by the way. I just love—I love when th-the, just the psyche is packed to the gunnels with self-hatred and shame. I so relate.
“Deepest, darkest secrets?” He writes, “I once sucked off my best friend’s dad when my friend was passed out drunk.”
Um, “Do these secrets and thoughts generate any particular feelings towards yourself?” He writes, “ I’m a fucked up shit bitch.” Um, boy, you are so fucking hard on yourself. You are so hard on yourself. You know, we’ve all, uh, we’ve all done stuff or thought stuff that fills us with shame and at some point I think we need to forgive ourselves and let it go.
He writes, “Any comments to make the podcast better?” He writes, “I have borderline personality disorder and think you should do an episode featuring that.” I would love to do that. If you live in the Los Angeles area and you have been diagnosed as a borderline, um, shoot me an email, and uh, I’d like to, I’d like to hear your story cuz I do want to try to get a variety of, um, people’s stories of what their struggle is, uh. It doesn’t have to be something medically diagnosed, but, um, I’m—I want this podcast to cover the spectrum as it, as it continues and not become repetitive, that’s my, that’s my hope.
This next, uh, survey, it’s from the Shame and Secrets, filled out by Roland, who’s, uh, uh, a guy, bisexual man in his 20’s. Uh, “Ever been the victim of sexual abuse?” He writes, “My first sexual encounter was with a much older man. I was seventeen. He was thirty-five. It was mostly consensual but I wish I could have stopped. I guess technically it was abuse since it was illegal, but I knew what was going to happen.
“Deepest, darkest thoughts?” He writes, “That no one ever truly has been attracted to me. That I will never be in a relationship again. That I will never be able to trust people to have close friends again. That I will never feel like I normal person.”
Uh, “Most powerful sexual fantasies?” He writes, “My fantasies involve old relationships, people I knew, even people I meet every day. I’ve not had sex in over five years and I turn almost any person I’m attracted to into a sexual encounter in my head.”
Um, “Would you ever consider telling a partner or close friend?” He writes, “I discuss it in therapy but not with the people in my life. I haven’t been in a relationship in five years and don’t have any close friends that I trust enough.”
“Deepest, darkest secrets?” He writes, “I engaged in sexual touching with my cousin when I was younger, from about five to twelve years old. We were both about the same age but that seriously messed me up. I don’t think he ever thinks about it, but it was a formative factor in my sexual identity.”
“Do these secrets and thoughts generate any particular feelings towards yourself?” He writes, “Intense shame. Sexual confusion. I want to be open about my sexuality but cannot accept my bisexuality myself. I don’t know what makes me not be able to just be open, but I don’t trust people, and have next to no self-esteem.”
Um, “Any comments to make the podcast better?” He writes, “Maybe have someone who has battled with their sexuality as their primary issue. I wish I were only gay or only straight, but the fact that I’m attracted to both has caused me more stress than relief. To hear others discuss it would help. But I love the podcast and get a little something out of every guest you have on.” My heart goes out to you. I, I, uh, you know, I think you, I think you summed it up when you said, um, “I cannot accept my bisexuality myself.” I think that’s really the only thing that’s standing between you and getting through that pain. You know, I think all of us wish that we were different, that something was different about us. A-and at a certain point, I think we just have to embrace that part of ourselves. Um, but it’s fucking hard and my heart goes out to you and I would love to have a guest who struggles with, uh, their bisexuality, or their sexuality in general. So, um, great suggestion, both the borderline and that.
And, um, this final one is from Bella. She’s, uh, in her 60’s. She lists herself as asexual; was raised in a pretty dysfunctional environment. And uh, “Deepest, darkest thoughts?” She writes, “I have acted on my thoughts and do not regret them. Would do them again, maybe not, but who knows?”
Um, “Most powerful sexual fantasies?” She writes, “I have done all of my sexual fantasies except gang rape. Maybe that was a good one to skip.”
[SHOW INTRO MUSIC]
Paul: I’m here with Simone. And, uh, I first heard about, uh, you from a listener. They said, “You have to read this person’s blog. It’s so, um, just unabashed and funny and honest.” And so I read a couple of your blogs, and I was like, “I think she’d make a, uh, a great guest.” So I contacted you and fortunately you were, uh, you were willing to, uh, to come on the podcast, so I, I appreciate it. It’s funny, just before we were rolling, I was mangling your last name and I, I love that I can come record people who are gonna tell me the most intimate details of their life, and I don’t even know how to pronounce their last name.
Simone: It’s never happened to me before.
Paul: (laughs) You are, uh, originally from, um, the DC area.
Simone: Mm-hmm. Kensington, Maryland.
Paul: And, um, what was your—just to kind of fill in, uh, th-the listener on wh-what do you do to make your living? I know you mentioned that you do some freelance advertising work.
Simone: Mm-hmm. I do freelance advertising here and there and, um, I try to do as little as possible of that. But, uh, it’s been good to me. It helps me to go and work for a little while, and then I can take time off to write and do what I really love to do.
Paul: Yeah, and you also, uh do music?
Simone: Mm-hmm. I play music.
Paul: Did you, did you ever do music professionally?
Simone: Well, in my head it was professionally, but I, you know, I never got signed by a label but I’ve done show—I’ve been performing music for about twelve years now and I’ve recorded a couple of albums, and, uh, and I’ve sold maybe, probably 500 CD’s.
Paul: Right on.
Simone: Yeah.
Paul: Um, B-but writing is th-the main—that’s the main breadwinner.
Simone: Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, not yet. I’m hoping that eventually it will be the breadwinner, but that’s what feeds my soul.
Paul: Right. Yeah. And, you freelance and that crushes it.
Simone: Yes. Yeah, precisely.
Paul: Nothing will crush your soul like sitting in a-a room, uh, having marketing people pick an idea apart and taking the life out of it and watering it down so that every ounce of it—so that there is nobody on earth that will miss what the point is, and nobody will be offended by it, but also nobody will be interested in it.
Simone: Yeah, yeah, I always feel bad for the creative team, so… I originally wanted to be a copywriter, but after I started—I started in account management and I saw the abuse that they took and I said, “Nope. No way. I’m not gonna go into copywriting. I’ll just stay in account management and project management and kind of keep on the outside of it all.”
Paul: And that’s before the idea then even goes to the client to get shit on.
Simone: Yeah.
Paul: So there’s two ways of shitting—
Simone: Oh yeah.
Paul: That you, uh, you have to …
Simone: There’s three, the creative director, then the account team, and then the client.
Paul: I did a little bit of marketing, uh, copy, uh, copywriting for the WB Network when it first launched and I just got a tiny little taste of, of what that was like. And I worked for nice people.
Simone: Yeah.
Paul: You know, th-they weren’t—never berated anybody or anything, but you could just see that process sometimes where, uh, it just had to go through that chain that just, that just kind of takes the life out of things sometimes.
Simone: Everybody wants their thumbprint on it.
Paul: Yeah, yeah, so, um, I wanted—where would be the best place to start with y-your story? One of the things that I always ask my guests is seminal moments from their, their life that were painful, embarrassing, affirming, transformative.
Simone: Ok, there are so many of those embarrassing moments that I just don’t even know where to start. Well, um, I grew up in a really wonderful family. Uh, Italian. My father’s mantra was “blood is thicker than water.” And I have a younger sister and a younger brother and we’re very close. We had dinner every night at 5:00. And, um, we just laughed or we argued or we fought or we just made jokes. We just had a really wonderful family life. And, um, so, um, up until the time I was about eight, everything seemed normal. Everything was great. And, um, and then things started changing around the house. My father started getting a little depressed and a little, a little different. And I just started hanging out down the street at my best friend’s house. And, um, when I was about ten years old, I was leaving her house to go home and her mom came up to me and said, “Oh Simone, here’s some, um, laundry detergent for your mom.” And it was in a little sandwich baggie and it was white powder. And, um, and her—and my best friend’s brother said, “Don’t you mean that’s for her dad?” And the whole room just stopped. And everybody was looking at me. And I remember just not getting it. And I remember that sinking feeling. It was like, “Why are they laughing? What’s so funny? What’s going on? What do they—why would my dad need laundry detergent?” And I just didn’t understand it.
And, um, so I walked home and I—something triggered in my head that I-I think I had been picking up little signs along the way and something just clicked in my head. And, um, so I started to do investigative, um—investigations around the house. And looking for stuff because I needed to know the answers. And, um …
Paul: Was it laundry detergent?
Simone: Yes it was. It was laundry detergent. But, um, in my head, I just didn’t understand what they were talking about. So I just started—I had to go find—I had to go on this escapade in the house to find what was going on in the—and dad, I’m sorry for outing you here, but it’s part of the story, and I’m writing a memoir, so get used to it. Um, anyway, I dug around in his drawers and I found all these bags of cocaine but I didn’t know it was cocaine at the time, but I knew it wasn’t good. I knew something was wrong. And, um, and it was around the time everybody in Hollywood was doing cocaine, so, um, I kind of had heart about it. Saturday Night Live people were doing a lot of it. John Belushi just had overdosed on heroin and cocaine and, um, it was in the news, and they always had commercials, “This is your brain. This is your brain on drugs.” And they’d crack the egg and the egg would fry.
So I knew that it was drugs. I just knew it, inherently I knew it. And, um, so I just, I just closed up. And I just got so scared because I didn’t, I didn’t want my dad doing drugs. Only bad people did drugs. And on top of that, my best friend—basically, every time I went to see her t was, ach, she would say, “Aren’t you scared? Aren’t you afraid the police are gonna come arrest you guys? You’re all gonna get arrested.” So I lived in this fear.
Paul: You thought you were gonna get arrested.
Simone: I thought the police were gonna come arrest the whole family.
Paul: Wow.
Simone: Yeah, I lived in this fear that the police were coming and that the whole neighborhood knew the big secret, and, um, I wanted to fix it. I wanted to fix the family problem. Um, so I started talking to my mom. I would say, you know, “Drugs are really bad for people.” And my mom would get a blank look on her face, like, how do I, how do I deal with this situation? Because she’s just a real simple Southern girl, had no idea what she was getting into when she married my Italian father and his lineage of Italian insanity.
And she just didn’t—she was shell-shocked, um, for a long time. And I would dig through the house and find stuff and—
Paul: What would you do with it when you would find something?
Simone: I went up to her, I remember went up to her a couple of times—I had a little pipe, I think it was for free-basing. It was before crack, so this is when people free-based. And I said, “What is this? What it is?” Because it was hidden under the pool table—we had a pool table in our basement too where everybody would come—all the—my dad and all of his buddies would come shoot pool and Lord knows what they were doing. But, um, so it was hidden under—tucked under the pool table. And I found it and I said, “What is this? What is this?” And she said, “Oh, that’s an, um, that’s an artifact from Africa that your father’s friends brought back.”
Paul: (laughs)
Simone: Yeah. So …
Paul: And you said, “They must get really good cocaine in Africa.”
Simone: Oh my gosh, I looked at her and I was so mad because she just kept making these stories up, and I knew that—and she was trying to make me sound like I was crazy. So everything that I, you know, that I knew real—I was told I was wrong. So ….
Paul: Was your mom using also?
Simone: Absolutely not, no. I think she got high maybe once in her life and got so paranoid she went and hid in the closet. So no, she is not—she’s a very innocent young lady. But my dad is, um, he’s a wild child, and, he—so he rode that train for a while, and, um, what happened was on my 13th birthday I, um, had just gotten my braces off and I just—I had quit hanging around that friend of mine because I couldn’t hang around her anymore. She got so weird and, um, she kept torturing me. It felt like she was torturing me about my family. And I had so much shame about it, I didn’t want to hang around anybody. So I kind of kept to myself and, um, I didn’t really have any friends. I was kind of a dork. And, um, but I wanted to show everybody that I wasn’t, so I wanted to get drunk on my 13th birthday and I went to my friend’s house and we raided—I raided—her father’s liquor cabinet. And I think I tried every single liquor, and every single thing I sampled. So, it wasn’t just a couple beers or a glass of wine, it was me chugging out of bottles: uh, vodka, gin, uh, Southern Comfort, um, gosh. I did drink a beer. I drank everything.
Paul: It was your alcoholism debutante party. You were coming out.
Simone: Absolutely. So I had to make sure that could—I couldn’t find anything that tasted good, so I kept trying the next thing. Cuz it just burned in my throat, like, aaaa! This is awful! What’s this one? It’s in this pretty blue bottle, this has to be good! And it wasn’t. Nothing was good. It was all fire. It felt like fire going down my throat. And, um, my poor little sister. I was 13 and she was 11, and she had to walk me around the neighborhood for hours because I was so filthy drunk. And, um, oh my gosh, it was so bad.
Paul: And where did you say your parents were? They were out of town?
Simone: Oh no, they were home. We were just, you know, this was ’83, so parents didn’t really keep that close a tab on their kids and the neighborhood was really safe. I lived in a dry town. There was no alcohol within a three-mile radius, which is very ironic, because, um, everybody in that town (laughs) has a drinking problem. Anyway, so what happened was I, um, my poor sister had to walk me around the neighborhood for hours and then s-she got tired and we had to go home at one point, and, um, when I got home I—my dad and mom just looked at me and they knew something was off. And, um, I went upstairs, and this is the last thing I remember, my mom looking at me, saying, “What have you done?” And I said, “Nothing! I’m fine!” And I projectile vomited across the bathroom onto her feet. And then, um, I don’t remember the rest of the night. I blacked out. I remember in and out of throwing up and taking showers, and they gave me coffee, and I would throw up coffee. And to this day I cannot drink coffee because of that moment.
Paul: Really?
Simone: And, um, I probably should have gone to the hospital because I was convuls—I went into convulsions. And I—I had really bad alcohol poisoning, blacked out.
Paul: It’s amazing you didn’t die!
Simone: I know, I don’t know how I didn’t. I don’t know how—and that was just the beginning of my drinking career.
Paul: Oh my God.
Simone: That was just the beginning. So it’s a miracle. So anyway, that was pretty seminal in my life, and it got bad after that, um, if you can imagine it getting even worse after that. My father when I was, um, I was in eighth grade. And I was so angry by the time he got into rehab because I was the one who said, “I knew it! You guys have been lying to me all of these years! Why didn’t you just tell me the truth?” And what are you gonna tell an 11 or a 12 year old? “Yes, your father is free-basing cocaine. And I don’t know what to do, Simone.” So, you know, I didn’t know how to forgive. Obviously.
Paul: So how old were you when he--
Simone: I was 13. I was 13.
Paul: Ok.
Simone: So when he went into rehab, I remember it was the first time I smoked pot. I, um, I just always had this attitude of, “I’ll show you. I’ll show all of you.” And, um, so I started smoking pot. And then later on I met a guy in high school and started dating him. And he was, he was a wonderful guy but I was not allowed to see him because he was older and he was from this a kind of this—from not the greatest neighborhood. And, um, I snuck behind my parents’ back because I didn’t—he was the love of my life and I wasn’t gonna let them tell me what to do. So, eventually I started smoking PCP on a daily basis.
Paul: Wow. How do you jump to that? How do you jump to PCP? That’s a, that’s a big leap. Because PCP is some serious shit.
Simone: It is. And it’s pretty, pretty amazing shit. Um, uh, you know, you hang around certain people and they just know how to get stuff. And he—my boyfriend never wanted me to do it. He begged me not to do it. And any time somebody tells me not to do something, that’s the green light for me to do it. I’m such a rebel. I’m a rebel without a cause, and, um—or many causes, whichever you want. So, I, I found a way to get it. And then, um—and I loved it, because it totally knocked me out on my ass. I just completely blacked out. And it was so peaceful, and I didn’t hear the voices in my head. Because by this point, I was hearing voices in my head. Um, my OCD developed at a young age. I-I-I used to organize my bookshelf, and my drawers, and my closet, everything in my—as you can see from my house, I, um, I like things in order, and I feel like if everything looks good then everything is good.
Paul: Perfect.
Simone: Yeah, so, I-I—when I was a little girl I used to rearrange my furniture to find the perfect setup. Um, everything was just organized and tidy, and neat and clean, even though my head was just spinning with negative thoughts. I would be paranoid that my stuffed animals were gonna get mad at me if I didn’t put them in pairs.
Paul: Really?
Simone: Yeah. I really thought they were gonna get upset with me. I-I was afraid to, um, (sigh) I was just do afraid to leave people out, um. Yeah, so, those voices just starting getting really negative, a-and paranoid too, once I started smoking pot, I started getting paranoid. I thought people were talking about me and laughing at me. And they probably were. (laughs) Especially since I liked making people laugh. I would do stuff and make them laugh and, “Wait, they’re laughing at me.” Oh, God, I was just not a good pothead. Not relaxed at all. Very uptight.
Paul: Yeah, pot, not a good drug for the self-obsessed.
Simone: No. God, no. I would just go into my brain and just live there for hours. But the PCP knocked it out. I-I just completely blacked out. And I loved it.
Paul: So would you put the PCP on the pot? How would you, how would you take the PCP?
Simone: It was—we’d roll joints of it.
Paul: God.
Simone: I’m trying to think back. It came in a tinfoil packet that my mom would find, and she, she would find—because I-I guess we would leave them around sometimes, forgetting that we left them, and she’d say, “I know you kids are doing drugs. I know you kids …” She had that Southern accent. And we’d say, “No, we’re not.” Or we’d blame somebody else. “That’s not ours.” So we were just reporting the poor—my poor mother had to live through the cycle again while I was in high school. I felt so bad. I feel, I feel, um really bad now, and I’ve made amends to her and all that, but it was a rough, rough high school time for my poor mom. Because she thought she was finally free once my father got sober, but I just started up the whole crazy train.
Paul: So when your dad went into rehab then, he got sober?
Simone: He got sober, and, um, he got help—support groups. And I started going to support groups, but I was so angry because I, um, I didn’t want to go to support groups because I wasn’t the one with the problem!
Paul: (laughs)
Simone: He was the one with the problem! So, I would go to support groups with him sometimes and then afterwards I’d go to a keg party and just get wasted. Oh boy.
Paul: You know, I think th-that brings up an excellent point, which is: if you’re not ready, if you’re not thirsty for help, a lot of times it’s really—I wouldn’t say a waste of time because sometimes even if you don’t want to be there, a seed can be planted that will later kind of sprout, but in may ways i-it can also be a bad thing, uh, because it can be a bad experience because you’re not in the right frame of mind and you, and you equate that with authority telling you what to do. Wh-which most support groups aren’t - authority.
Simone: At all.
Paul: It’s just a place for love and kindness and understanding, but …
Simone: Everybody’s equal. But I looked at it—I have a very big problem with authority figures. Which is probably why I’m a freelancer, because I don’t like having bosses telling me what to do. I don’t like anybody telling me what to do still (laughs).
So, yeah, he got help, I got worse. I almost got kicked out of college because I got caught with alcohol. And I crashed into a tree when I was nine—right before my 19th birthday, I blacked out at the wheel.
Paul: Boy, you and your birthdays! I-I’m gonna stay off the roads—
Simone: I know, seriously.
Paul: Although you’ve been sober for uh ….
Simone: Eight, almost seven years.
Paul: Yeah, that’s awesome.
Simone: I almost said eight right there. It feels like eight, but it’s been almost seven years, yeah. I was very ashamed of that for a long time too, that I was sober. I was not ashamed of being an alcoholic or getting into car accidents or blacking out at parties or whatever I was doing. I was ashamed of being sober.
Paul: Really?!
Simone: Yeah, for years, until about two or three months ago.
Paul: Are you kidding me?!
Simone: No.
Paul: What is there to be embarrassed about? Y-you feel like a lame-oh or what?
Simone: Yeah, I feel like a loser. Because when I was drinking, anybody who didn’t drink, I’m like, “What is wrong with them?” You know, “Why aren’t they drinking? They must be weird.” And, um, and I work i-in an industry where, uh, drinking is huge, it’s celebrated.
Paul: (sarcastically) Is there drinking in advertising?
Simone: (laughs) Just a little bit.
Paul: Can you imagine what it was like? Well I can, watching Mad Men.
Simone: Yeah, Mad Men is pretty good. Mad Men has only created another level of insanity with today’s current ad agencies because now everybody’s drinking scotch, whereas before it was just beer, and now they’re all drinking scotch, which is way stronger than beer. And it’s just, ach, it’s just getting worse. I think it’s gonna turn people into alcoholics even faster.
So anyway, so, yeah, I just, I hid it. But, um, let’s see, some other seminal things. I got married when I was 23, um, very young. I moved to San Francisco from, from Maryland, and, and, uh, got married. And then, um, gosh, about four years after that I—he was older than me and he wanted to start a family and he was really just a wonderful, wonderful man and he was so good and took such good care of me but I just didn’t feel worthy of it, you know. So I, I met this guy who was a drinker and he had this tragic life, and I just love the tragic people, I really do.
Paul: It’s very exciting when you’re unhealed. It is very exciting.
Simone: Oh my God. We just went the Buddha Bar, you know, at lunchtime and just hung out there for hours. And then we’d go back to work for a little bit and pretend to work for a little while—and then go back to wherever we drank, the Buddha Bar café house in San Francisco over in Chinatown. And, um, and I just fell in love with this guy.
Paul: Or what you thought was love.
Simone: What I thought was love. He was, quote, unquote, “the one”. And, um, I don’t know what that means now, but at the time it thought it meant that he—that we were soul mates. So I uprooted my entire life to be with this guy and, um, left my husband, and, um, moved to LA because I couldn’t find any work up in San Francisco and I was so embarrassed and all my friends that I was really good friends with at the agency I worked at, I was so mortified because we work—the guy and I worked together, and they all could not understand why I had done what I did. And I was just mortified, so I just left town. Again. I like to leave town. And I started working in LA. He moved down to LA and that’s a long story we can save for the memoir, but it just got really ugly. You know, it was just a really ugly relationship. And very dysfunctional.
Paul: And alcoholism is a progressive disease.
Simone: Very, yeah.
Paul: And the longer it remains untreated, the uglier it gets.
Simone: Yeah. And when I got down to San Francisco, I knew I was in trouble when I, um, was bent over a mirror doing cocaine. Cuz I swore I would never do cocaine. Cuz that was my dad’s drug of choice. And, um, when I, when I caught myself doing that, you know, I said, “On no.” And then I just had to, you know—denial. Denial’s a wonderful thing. And then the curtain came up and I just did it and I was the worst person too. You never wanted to go to a party with me because I would be the one that would hold onto the coke and you’d come up to me afterwards and say, “Can I have some?” And I’d be like, “Oh, I think I did it all. Sorry! I’m so sorry.”
Paul: But I can tell you all about my stereo.
Simone: Oh my gosh. I was such a monster. Such a monster. And it just kept getting worse and worse. And that guy and I broke up, and I started going out with this other guy. And, um, he was my brother’s best friend from high school. And my family was just blown away that I was going out with him because he was younger, and he was my brother’s best friend, and they said, “That’s incestuous! What are you doing?” But I never knew him before, so he was like this new guy and he was gonna save me from the other guy. So this is a pattern in my life. Every boyfriend I have, I either cheated on, or there was another guy waiting for me right afterwards. So I’ve had that pattern throughout my life until this current relationship that I have right now. And, um, so anyway …
Paul: Is there a, is there a moment, um, when you’re in a relationship when that person turns from being exciting and attractive to “I’ve got to get out of this,” and can you describe what it is?
Simone: Well, like I said, I like those tragic boys, the artistic, tragic, hopeless guys, and, um, the ones that need help. And, um, you know, it’s very clear to me why I pick them. When I was going through puberty all these druggies would come to the house and hang out with my dad, and, um, and I just found them attractive. I didn’t at first. At first I thought they were disgusting but then all of the sudden my hormones started kicking in and these were the guys that were around me, and I thought, “Wow, they’re so interesting, with their scraggly hair and wired eyes – they’re so gorgeous.” Oh my God. Anyway, so that was kind of a pattern. I always loved the bad boys, so I just kept going for the bad boys. But what happens is I go for the guy who seems a little off and, um, needs help, and I do my best to fix him, and then once he’s got his life together, I’m like, “Ehh, ok, I’m ready for something else now.”
Paul: Other projects for your ego.
Simone: Yes, mm-hmm. Absolutely, absolutely.
Paul: If I can control them, I have some control in this world, and I’m powerful and I’ll be ok.
Simone: Yeah, and, uh, and that’s how I was with my second husband. I really was so hard on him. And, um, we were together for six years and I really kept saying, “Aren’t you gonna”—he was a bartender—I said, “Are you always gonna be a bartender?” And he would say, “I’m fine with being a bartender.” I wasn’t fine with him being a bartender cuz I wanted him to live in this house and, you know, have a steady job and we were gonna have kids and it was gonna look a certain way. And he loved bartending. And I ruined that for him. I would go to the bar and drink and scream at him the entire time from the end of the bar.”
Paul: (laughs) As if work didn’t suck enough.
Simone: I know. And there I was, so, yeah. The poor guy. We got married, if you can believe that after the torture I put him through, and we got married and then four months after the wedding he left me for another woman. And then that was the biggest change—turning point in my life, is that I went off the deep end. I wanted to die. Um, I-I was trying—I wanted to roll—drive my car off the freeway, um. I couldn’t function. I had to take a week or so off of work. I was just miserable.
Paul: H-had you always been the one to leave?
Simone: Mm-hmm.
Paul: And so now you were …
Simone: Oh yeah. It was karma, I called it karma. And I thought it felt, it felt so surreal because I’d just had this beautiful wedding that I’d been planning for a year. Meticulously planning for a year.
Paul: I can’t even imagine what an OCD wedding looks like.
Simone: Oh, it was fabulous. It was really fun. It was really fun. We had a good time. My mom and I just say it was a good party.
Paul: Did you hire a good sterilizer?
Simone: Sterilizer, for…?
Paul: For the wedding, to make sure everything was clean and there weren’t any germs?
Simone: I don’t really have germ OCD, I have more—
Paul: Organization
Simone: Organization, and, um, and, and, um, obsessive-compulsive thoughts. Really bad ones that won’t go away. But the germs never really bother me. I just, I-I learned how to shut that one off right away. Um, I’m not like Howard Hughes, thank God. It could be worse.
Anyway, so, yeah, he left and I got really sick, and I, um—the big turning point was I was on the bathroom floor with a razor blade and I was praying to God to help me kill myself, and, um, that’s—I-I just felt like a weakling because I didn’t have courage to kill myself. And then I looked up and I saw my dogs, who are no longer with me, Sadie and Quincy, they were also Boston terriers, um, they were shaking, and I, and I—
Paul: Awwww
Simone: And for a moment I stepped out of my self-centered, self-seeking, self-absorbed mind and I said, “What are you doing? What are you doing? Look at these dogs. What are you, what are you—if these dogs are acting like this, what are your family—what are you mom and dad gonna do? And your brother and sister? All your friends who have been taking care of you for the last two months during this horrible tragedy?”
And, um, so I called the suicide hotline and, um, and like I told you earlier, I pretended like I was calling for a friend.
Paul: Which must make them just have a really hard time keeping a straight face.
Simone: Oh God, I was such an idiot. And, uh, I asked her what would happen if I swallowed an entire bottle of, um, aspirin, and she—oh not me—my friend is threatening to take, uh, a whole bottle of aspirin, what will happen to her? Will she die? I was still kind of testing the waters. And, um, she said, “No, she’ll probably end up in the hospital.” And I was like, “Darn it. I don’t want to end up in the hospital. That’ll be even more embarrassing.” And I think the reason I didn’t really go through with cutting my wrists is: 1) I cannot blood, and 2) I didn’t wanna—I pictured the dogs traipsing around my clean apartment with bloody paw prints.
Paul: So OCD does have a good side.
Simone: It helped. It helped for—in that moment. And, um, it was just really gross. So I-I got help after that. I-I decided to get help, and, uh, I decided it was time to quit drinking and quit abusing myself and, um, you know, I started really going on a journey inside. And I started doing a lot of writing. And that’s what made me wanna start writing my memoir. Um, but at the time I was just so angry I could—there’s—I-I could not publish anything that I wrote, seven years ago. Um, but it was such a great stepping stone for me to get my whole life out and see the patterns, the same patterns over and over and over and over.
Paul: What were th-the—some of the ways that you did that, you know, what you called th-that journey inside, you obviously sought outside help?
Simone: I sought outside help. Tons of outside help. And, um, support groups. And, um ….
Paul: Therapy?
[snoring sound]
Simone: Yeah, therapy. And, um, and books. I read a lot of books about how to write, a-and grieve, and—cuz I was grieving. And, uh, sorry, Winnie, snoring. A lot of books on grieving. So I just started writing about my past, and um, I just went through every, every step—like you do here. I went through the seminal moments in my life and I got to see, wow, wow, wow. (laughs)
Paul: A-and the perspective that, you know, that we get from having another person share a point of view from us, f-from our point of view, you know—or sometimes it’s even just talking to another person and hearing the words come out of our mouths that we get a fresh perspective on our life.
Simone: Oh yeah.
Paul: When the thoughts are just bouncing around our skull, and we’re trying to make sense of them in silence by ourselves, it is, uh, it’s like trying t-to find something i-in fog. It’s just, uh, it’s so, so difficult.
Simone: You can’t fix a problem with a problem.
Paul: You can’t. You can’t.
Simone: So, and the only way I can learn about myself is by talking to somebody else. I can’t learn about myself by just isolating, because I tried that for a long time and isolating is another drug for me. I hide from people still and I have to really just, you know, look at what I’m doing, because that’s a bad, bad pattern. And, um, it’s another form of self-abuse. So I got to see all the self-abuse, and the self-loathing, and, um, I really for years, was even, um, not drinking, hated myself. And it wasn’t until, um, this last fall, I had a bad psychotic break, um. And I was driving home from work with Winnie next to me, and this is the second time a Boston terrier has saved my life.
Paul: Wow!
Simone: Yeah, I was gonna smash into—I was planning to smash into, um some sort—drive off a bridge or the Howard Hughes on ramp thing, or smash into a brick wall, and Winnie was sitting next to me and I just looked at her and I’m like, “What am I doing? What am I doing?” I called my sister and she couldn’t deal with me because she’s heard it for years so she called my brother and my brother talked to me and he said, “What are you, what are you doing?” And he, and he, um—what did I do—I said, “I’m either going to check into Brotman Hospital or go to, um, a support group.” And he said, “Why don’t you go to the support group?”
Paul: Had you been to the support group before?
Simone: Oh yeah, for years. I’d been going there for years. And so I knew all the people there.
Paul: And had you stopped going?
Simone: No, uh-uh, no way. I was—this is me going to support meetings three times a week. Um, I was seeing a new therapist, um, who is questionable, that therapist, now that I look back, but, um, sh-she was helping me get off the medication that I was on at the time. And that was a bad idea. I’d gone—
Paul: Ah
Simone: I’d always had shame about medication and, um, and so I go off of it because I don’t want to be medicated.
Paul: You too.
Simone: Yeah. I go off, I’m like, “I don’t need this shit. I don’t—I’m not gonna get a chemical lobotomy. Screw the pharmaceutical companies trying to manipulate me.”
Paul: Oh my God
Simone: “I’m not gonna be like that.” So I, you know, again, a rebel. And so I go off of it and then something happens that normal people can deal with but I can’t. So I thought everybody that I was working with hated me, and I thought they were purposely drinking in front of me t-to make me jealous and to make me crazy. And I knew in my heart of hearts that that was not true. But my mind would not let go of the thought. A-and I kept hearing, “They think you’re a loser. You’re a loser. Nobody likes you.” Blah, blah, blah, over and over. And I’d heard these voices since I was seven or eight years old, so they’re just like my friends now, you know? And I just, ach, but once you get a little bit of recovery, they stop working and they—and you realize how horrible they are and you don’t want to hear them any more.
So anyway, I went to that support group and I didn’t feel much better so I got home and I called the suicide hotline again and the guy who was on the phone was so nice to me and he said, “Why don’t you—“ I told him I had a dog, and he said, “Take your dog, hug her, and go watch something funny.” So I watched Modern Family. And I laughed, and I held my dog and I felt better and I went to sleep and I woke up feeling different and better.
Paul: Really?
Simone: Mm-hmm. Um, and then I called my friend who recommended her, uh, psychiatrist many times before, but I kept saying, “Mm-hmm, I’ll go, mm-hmm, I’ll go, mm-hmm.” And finally I made an appointment. And, um, and she’s just this wonderful doctor who diagnosed me. Because I just thought I had depression but it turns out I have other things too. I have OCD, even though I kind of knew that. Um, and severe anxiety. And I didn’t know that my severe OCD was a way to deal with my anxiety, I’d never put the two together. And then, um, then also bipolar disorder. So that explains the up and down, the in and out, the, um, just never feeling stable, no matter what, no matter how hard I worked on myself, I always came to this place of, “I still suck. I am a horrible person.” And I could not—because I flew off the handle and I couldn’t—I could not grasp, um, serenity, except for short periods.
Paul: And that can’t, in my opinion, can’t ever be cured intellectually, that voice in our head that tells us we’re not enough, we don’t do enough, we don’t have enough. It can never be cured intellectually. I-it either has to be dealt with, uh, spiritually or, uh, medically.
Simone: Mm—hmm, yeah, so got--
Paul: Usually both.
Simone: Yeah, I was already—I’d already gone back to church because, um, I-I just felt a connection to a higher power and I, and I and God. I’ve always talked to God, since I was a little girl. Are You There, God? It’s Me, Margaret was one of my favorite books. And, I and I went to—I was raised Catholic. So, I-I went to Sunday school, I got communion, I was confirmed. But right when I was 13 I-I left the church because I could not deal with the Catholic church anymore and I—but I would still talk to God in my head every now and then.
So, um, the spiritual part of my life has just totally changed me. And healed the emotional parts that were just destroyed from all those years of abuse but I still didn’t feel right. So I finally got the right medication. And that helps.
Paul: Yeah.
Simone: It really helps. My life has turned around. I’m happy. Cuz I was in therapy, um, my therapist and my, and my psychiatrist, they go to lunch together sometimes.
Paul: Seriously?
Simone: Yeah. And, uh, they know each other. They talk about me. And, uh—which is great, and um, so …
Paul: Are you imagining that or is that accurate?
Simone: No, they really are. My therapist told me. I just laughed and I asked her if she wanted my mentor’s number as well. “Do you want my mentor’s number as well so that you can all go out to lunch and talk about me?”
And, um, anyway, I told her—she said, “Well, what do, what do you want, Simone?” And I said, “I just don’t want to hate myself.” She said, “Well don’t you want to be happy?” I said, “I-I don’t even know what that means. I just don’t want to hate myself anymore.” And, uh, I went, I went and saw her a couple of weeks ago and I said, “I am happy. I don’t even know what this is but this is amazing.” And then I immediately said, “I’m afraid it’s gonna go away.” Because I have that thought, it comes back and I—this is all gonna—the other shoe’s gonna fall off the other foot, and you’re gonna spiral into darkness; and you’re gonna wanna kill yourself again, and nobody likes you. Oh my God, the worst is I get triggered when I have anxiety or I have panic problems and performing does that to me.
So I had a big show last week, Taboo Tales and, um, I’ve done this since I was a little girl, um, I invited everybody and I actually—I usually just invite people and say, “Come if you can.” But this one I really needed people to be there for me, because I was talking the stuff I’m talking about now and I wanted all my friends to be there to support me. So I in my head set up this belief system that if they don’t come to the show then they don’t love me.
Paul: Oh…
Simone: And I’ve been doing that to myself for about twelve years now. I quit playing music because I would say—if people didn’t show up to gigs, I would think they didn’t love me. And, um, and so I would ruin every single time I got up and performed music. I would go home depressed and retire. I don’t know how many times I’ve retired from music. Um, because I felt like I’m just not good enough. I’m just not good enough. And those voices are just so evil.
And so I had to really work hard on this last show because I love getting up and reading my stories. Because I—this is what I love to do. I love writing. And I love reading my stories and performing them and I was having so much fun for about five months there and that—those voices started coming back. And I wanted to die because I just don’t want to hear those voices anymore. I want to go do what I do because I love it. Who gives a shit if somebody else doesn’t want to come support it? Who gives a shit? This is for me. And so my therapist and I are trying to work on that. This is for me. But I’m still like, “Nope, they don’t love me.”
Paul: You know, I-I-I-I think those voices in our head, i-if you’re prone to them like, like you and I are, I don’t ever hope for those voices to go away. What I hope for is the clarity to be able to recognize that is not the truth.
Simone: Absolutely.
Paul: And that—and I live in that place a lot. Sometimes I slide back and I start to believe those, those voices, but I think, I think a-aiming for the place where you can just recognize those voices as not the truth is a doable goal to aim for. That I know for sure. I don’t know of anybody who has lived with those voices for a lot of their life that has gotten to the place where they never—where those voices never pop up again, that may be unrealistic. I don’t know, maybe I haven’t talked to enough people, but, um …
Simone: I think maybe Buddha or, um, you know, even he probably had stuff going on. But you’re right, it’s—they’re always there. And it’s how do you cope with them? There’s a movie called A Beautiful Mind, a long time ago--
Paul: Oh my God, I c-r-i-e-d at that movie.
Simone: Where he—I loved that movie. And he just made friends with his, his friends. And it’s just making friends with your enemies. So I’m trying to learn how to make friends with the enemies in my head. And I laugh at them. And one of my tools is, “Shut the fuck up. Shut the fuck up.” And I have to tell the committee, cuz they just go off on me and I just have to tell them to shut the fuck up. “That’s not true, that is a lie.” And I have so many tools now from talking to other friends and people who are on this journey of finding peace and serenity and, you know, is there any new information in these thoughts? No. There’s no information.
Paul: Same story.
Simone: Same story. So let’s just drop it, or, you know, stop, what are the facts? What are the facts? Cuz my—and I have to call other people usually because my facts—I-I will create the facts. I will make the facts up. And I have to call people and say, “These are not the facts, right?” And they’re like, “No, you lunatic, no.”
Paul: A-a-and the other thing too about this thinking, “Everybody’s talking about me. Nobody likes me,” i-i-it’s—not only is it self-pity, it’s also selfishness, thinking that we’re the center of attention.
Simone: Yeah, sick.
Paul: Th-th-there’s so much sickness i-i-in those thoughts, uh …
Simone: Yeah. It’s still self-centered. It’s still very self-centered thinking. And, um, I just have to fight through it, because it just—it takes me—it just makes me isolate from everybody. And, um, and I want to punish people, and I don’t—and I just want to hide, and, ugh, it’s just such a horrible way to live. It’s no way to live. Living is for connecting with people and loving and hugging and smiling, and, you know, I’m just not used to that. So, it’s a whole new world for me.
Paul: A-a-and I think one of the thing—because I’m an isolator as well, and I think one of the reasons why we isolate is because we want that control. If I’m gonna go meet a group of people at some place, there’s a lot of unknowns. And I don’t have control over those unknowns. And when you are cursed with imagination and pessimism, uh, the pictures you paint in your head, though occasionally good, are usually pretty dark and pretty grim.
Simone: Pretty grim.
Paul: And usually not based in reality. So who’s, who’s not gonna wanna sit in the, uh, the bland unknown of their La-Z-Boy, watching reruns of a show they’ve already seen before
Simone: Oh my gosh.
Paul: But every time I roll the dice and say, “You know what? I’m gonna get out of comfort zone, I’m gonna go meet these people,” it’s amazing and oftentimes a new chapter of my life had to have that moment to begin. I had to get out of my comfort zone for that new experience. But it’s so scary when you don’t know.
Simone: It’s so scary.
Paul: And I think that’s what—you know, you talked about a higher power, or sometimes we talk about spirituality, that is a component of spirituality, is trusting that there is an energy in the universe that loves us and if we feed it will, it will feed us.
Simone: And what we focus on grows. Somebody told me once that if you have two dogs, you have the mean dog and the nice dog, whoever you feed is going to keep going. Yeah, so I try to feed the nice dog now.
Paul: That makes sense.
Simone: Yeah.
Paul: Any more seminal moments that you want to get into here?
Simone: Those are the pretty big, yeah, th-th-the, yeah, I ended up on the proper meds was where I ended up and my life has completely changed since then. And my show is great, you know, I was very nervous about going and it was the best show I’ve ever had in my life. And I met new writers and people who had, you know, admired my story, and they said I did a good job, and I believed them. Because normally people would come up to me after a show and say, “That was amazing.” And I would hear this voice going, “They’re just lying because they feel—they don’t know what to say.” But I really felt the love that night, and it was just such a turning point for me.
Paul: That’s awesome.
Simone: Yeah.
Paul: What’s really, uh, cool too is if we can get to a place where we feel that love without even having to do anything, without having to—uh, I’ve experienced some of those moments, and i-it’s pretty, uh, cool, but, uh, I lot of times I gotta go for the, uh, I don’t know, the quick fix or the cheap boost, whatever you want to call it. But I was feeling really, really bad last Sunday, Sunday night. And I couldn’t put my finger exactly on what it, what it was, but I thought, I just—I need to feel some love. I need to just be reminded there’s love in the world. And so I started a, uh, love-off on Twitter at like midnight. And, you know, like 25 or 30 people jumped in and tweeted things that they love and it just reminded me that the world is abundant with love.
Simone: Absolutely.
Paul: And I woke up the next morning, and I just—I felt, I felt different and I-I don’t know if that was a bad way t-to do what I was going through, or not …
Simone: You asked for what you needed and it, and it came.
Paul: Yeah.
Simone: And I think we have to—that’s the hardest part, asking, you know, is asking for help, and putting—being vulnerable. That’s the hardest thing to do. Nobody wants to be vulnerable. But when we are, that’s when the abundance flows in. And that’s when we can be our true selves. And that is a miracle when that happens.
Paul: And it sounds new-agey and horse shitty and I used to r-o-l-l my eyes at people that would talk like that, and “Yeah, why don’t you go get some more fucking alfalfa and bore somebody else with your shit, uh, fucking clay pottery show in the town square. But, uh, i-it—there really is a truth to it. And, you know, as you were talking about y-your story, Simone, I couldn’t help but think, my God, this is—all the voices that were telling you things, and the trying to save people, it—I just kept going back to that book I read by Eckhart Tolle, A New Earth, where he pinpoints how the ego injects itself into our lives. And he shows you how to identify it and how to not listen to it. And it, uh, your story is a perfect example of somebody learning to recognize the voice of ego and separate that from the voice of truth, um.
Simone: Mm-hmm.
Paul: So anybody out there that’s never read that book, um …
Simone: I actually have the tape. I haven’t read it, but I have the tapes—not the tapes, the CD’s. People don’t make tapes anymore.
Paul: I have the reel-to-reel.
Simone: (laughs) The vinyl. Oh, my.
Paul: Do you want to do some fears?
Simone: Sure. I have so many. Wanna do—are we gonna do a fear-off?
Paul: Yeah. I’m gonna be doing uh, a listener’s.
Simone: K. Do you wanna start or do you want me to start?
Paul: Why don’t—why don’t you start?
Simone: Ok. I’m afraid I’ll never get an agent for my book.
Paul: Uh, I’m gonna be reading the fears of, uh, she just calls herself “M”. Um, uh, “I’m afraid that the bullies were right and I am unlovable.”
Simone: I’m afraid I’ll never get published.
Paul: “I’m afraid that I’m boring.”
Simone: I’m afraid no one will buy my book.
Paul: “I’m scared that because of my parents’ misunderstandings about depression, they don’t see my living with it as an accomplishment.” Oh, that’s a deep one. It is an accomplishment, living with, uh, depression successfully.
Simone: Yeah. Yeah it is. Good for you if you can do that. Um, I’m afraid that I’m gonna lose my shit and get locked up in a mental ward.
Paul: Uh, “I’m afraid that I already met my soul mate, if there is such a thing, and I pushed him away.”
Simone: Mmmm. That’s a good one. Um, I’m afraid that I’ll accidentally drink and have to start over.
Paul: Uh, “I’m afraid that my best friend’s husband hates me.”
Simone: I’m afraid of getting old and saggy.
Paul: Uh, “I’m afraid that my flat mates will one day collectively realise how messed up I really am and kick me out.” I love when something clues you in that somebody’s English. She spelled realize with an s and she called it flat mates.
Simone: Yep. Yep, flat mates.
Paul: Or it could be Australian. Do they call it that in Australia?
Simone: Uh, I don’t know. That sounds …
Paul: They probably call an apartment a bobby, or, you know.
Simone: First I thought it was San Francisco but then the “realise” was the trigger.
Paul: What do they call it, a flat in, uh, San Francisco?
Simone: Mm-hmm.
Paul: I had no idea.
Simone: Um, ok. I’m afraid of gaining weight.
Paul: Um, “I’m afraid that I will never have as close a friendship as I would like.”
Simone: I’m afraid my clothes won’t fit.
Paul: “I’m afraid that I’m a cosmic joke.” Wow.
Simone: Wow. Um, I’m afraid that I’ll always have to work in advertising.
Paul: Uh, “I’m afraid that if you were to peel the layers and layers of defensive crap that I surround myself with, that there would be nothing left.
Simone: Whoa. That was one of my biggest fears too, which is why I held on to my anger for so long.
Paul: Yeah?
Simone: Yeah.
Paul: That’s interesting, because in a way a-at least you have a personality then.
Simone: Yeah, it was a tough switch.
Paul: Yeah. Maybe toxic and everything but, uh—yeah but if you feel—your fear is that you—you’re invisible and you don’t matter and there’s really nothing identifiable about you, why, yeah, why not cling to something?
Simone: Mm-hmm
Paul: Wow
Simone: Mm-hmm. That was a tough one to let go of. Ok, um, I’m afraid I’ll push away Peter.
Paul: Um, a-are you guys married, boyfriend/girlfriend?
Simone: We’re domestic partners because I didn’t want to get married for a third time. I figured two was enough for one lifetime.
Paul: Yeah. There you go. Um, “I’m afraid that I will end up as a crazy cat lady.”
Simone: I’m afraid that I’ll end up as a crazy Boston terrier lady.
Paul: “I’m afraid that someone will recognize me from reading this list.”
Simone: I’m afraid I’ll push my friends away.
Paul: Uh, “I’m afraid that I will never say anything unique through my creative endeavors.
Simone: I’m afraid people will get sick of me.
Paul: “I’m afraid that one day when my mum says there’s something wrong with her, she will be right, but I won’t have believed because of her tendency towards hypochondria and it will be my fault when it’s too late for her to receive treatment.
Simone: Oh my goodness.
Paul: That’s a good one.
Simone: Oh that is a good one. I’m afraid the mean anonymous commenter is actually a friend of mine.
Paul: Oh so that wasn’t—on your blog somebody wrote two really nasty comments, which I thought were completely, completely off base. I thought—you put that little picture, it said the “demons within.”
Simone: The demons.
Paul: If thought that was your way of saying that that was a just a voice in your head, that it wasn’t actually somebody else.
Simone: No, uh-uh.
Paul: Well whoever that person is has a lot of fucking issues. They’re so unreasonably nasty, uh, in what they wrote.
Simone: But most trolls are.
Paul: Most trolls are, yeah.
Simone: Somebody said, “You should be happy you have a troll. That means people are reading your stuff. (sighs) But I just don’t want it to be a friend of mine. Or somebody that I know. (laughs)
Paul: Yeah. I-I guarantee that’s not a friend of yours. And if it is, that’s no friend of yours.
Simone: Exactly.
Paul: Sounds so cheesy. Um, M says, “I am afraid that I have no idea what I am doing.”
Simone: I’m afraid people won’t like me because I’m sober.
Paul: “I’m afraid that my best friend keeps in touch with me not because she wants to, but because she feels obligated because our families go back a long time.”
Simone: Mmm. I’m afraid of singing live.
Paul: “I’m afraid that I will drown in the air.”
Simone: Mmm. I’m afraid that my ex will, um, put our sex tape on the internet.
Paul: That’s a, you know what, I think that’s a, uh, reasonable fear.
Simone: It’s worked for a couple of people, though.
Paul: Yeah. “I’m afraid of dying and my family going through all my stuff and realizing things were so much worse than they realized.”
Simone: I’m afraid I have horrible breath.
Paul: “I’m afraid of hospitals.”
Simone: I’m afraid I’ll trip and break my neck and become paralyzed.
Paul: “I’m afraid that I’ll never be able to buy a house and therefore will have to rent with others forever.”
Simone: I’m afraid I will be in debt for the rest of my life because I bought a house at the peak.
Paul: “I’m afraid that my parents will both die never having seen me happy and blame themselves.”
Simone: Oh my gosh, that’s so sad.
Paul: That is.
Simone: I’m afraid I’ll embarrass my family.
Paul: “I’m afraid that this is the best it will ever be.”
Simone: I’m afraid I’ll always have to—I’ll have a backup plan to kill myself.
Paul: “I’m afraid that if Clarence the angel was assigned my case, he would throw his hands up in the air and declare me a lost cause.”
Simone: Oh my, my. Uh, I’m afraid the house is going to get messy.
Paul: “I’m afraid of losing my memory.”
Simone: I’m afraid I’ll never be fully prepared.
Paul: “I’m afraid of being forgotten.” Oh my god, do I feel that one.
Simone: Mmm.
Paul: That is, that is terrifying to me, th-th-the feeling that at the end of my life, I won’t have meant, uh, anything, or enough and it would have just been, “Who?”
Simone: Yeah. But you know that’s a lie.
Paul: I do know that’s a lie.
Simone: Ok, good. Okay, I’m afraid I’m gonna fuck everything up.
Paul: “I’m afraid that as an older sibling, I should really be a better role model for them.”
Simone: Oh my. I’m afraid I’ll hate myself again.
Paul: I’m afraid that if I am physically intimate with someone, they will either laugh at me or be physically repulsed.”
Simone: I’m afraid I’m not good enough.
Paul: “I’m afraid of what it means that when I saw my dad in the hospital with tubes coming out of him, felt nothing.”
Simone: That’s all I have.
Paul: Well, uh, that was a good one.
Simone: Yeah.
Paul: That was a good one. Do you, um—was there anything you want to talk about before we do, uh, get to the love?
Simone: Mmm, no, I’m feeling pretty clean. I feel like I’ve been to therapy even though I know this isn’t therapy (laughs).
Paul: It feels so good to talk about, uh, fears, to let them out of the—I sometimes feel like there are those ping pong balls that used to pick the lottery, and it just feels—I feel lighter after I get some of them. Because you—also sometimes you hear how ridiculous they are when they come out of your mouth.
Simone: Absolutely. You hear them for the lies they are and—that’s what I heard a long time ago – that we’re as sick as our secrets, so I don’t keep anything in anymore. I just let it all hang out. Even if it’s embarrassing because I don’t want to feel that way. I want to feel better.
Paul: What—have you taken the Shame and Secrets survey on our website?
Simone: Mmm-hmmm.
Paul: I-is, uh—well obviously if it’s shame and secrets you probably wouldn’t want to share it, but, um …
Simone: Well, I have some shameful thoughts that I wrote down and stuff that I’ve done. I don’t know that I can remember—if I can go through some of the stuff I’ve done, but, um, I’m embarrassed that I have to go to therapy and, uh, take medication. And, um I’m embarrassed that I have suicide—suicidal thoughts still. Um, let’s see …. Um, you know—
Paul: Are they, are they less potent than they were before?
Simone: Mmm-hmmm, yeah. But when something—when I get triggered, I just think that that’s my solution now. It’s like, “Oh, you should just probably kill yourself because you’ll never get out of this one.” And it could be the smallest thing in the world but that’s the solution that I come up with. Um, I think that the most shameful thing is that I’ve cheated on every guy except the guy I’m with now. It’s the first healthy relationship I’ve ever had and I’m, um, gonna be 42 and I just have a lot of shame around that. You know, I hurt a lot of people and lied to a lot of people, yuck.
Paul: What do you, what do you think the, um, the cheat was, was about, because, you know, they say everything is about sex except sex.
Simone: Oh, yeah, I think it’s, um—was me punishing men because I was so angry at my father for what he had done to the family, even though, you know, he was sick. But I didn’t know that. I didn’t know he was sick. And, um, so I took that all on myself that, you know, men are not to be trusted, and, um, and they’re no good, so …
Paul: Might as well beat ‘em to the punch.
Simone: Mmm-hmmm, totally. And then when I got beat to the punch this last time, it—life opened up for me. It’s like, okay, now I get to see all my stuff.
Paul: Yeah, um, when you would go cheat, would you go out the door thinking, “I’m gonna cheat tonight,” or would a situation present itself and it was so tantalizing you couldn’t turn it down?
Simone: No, I would never go out thinking that. What would happen was I would get into these long-term relationships—I’ve been in long-term relationships since I was 13 years old, I was a serial relationship person. And, um, what would happen is toward the, you know, the end of the relationship, I would lose interest. Like I said, once they were “fixed”, I would lose interest and I would set my sights on somebody else who needed help. So I’d …
Paul: Or you perceived them as fixed.
Simone: Yeah I’d perceive them as fixed and then I’d go and find a new project.
Paul: You know, a-a-and I would imagine in many of the cases, they got so tired of your controlling behavior, they probably said, “I have to appear that I’m changing to get her off my fucking back.”
Simone: Yeah, or just leave. Leave the worst way possible so that you couldn’t—there was no chance that I would ever, you know, make up and get back together with that person.
Paul: Isn’t it awesome th-th-though that you are aware of these things about yourself now instead of carrying them around disguised as something else and being baffled by them? Who, you know, who wouldn’t be driven to the brink of suicide by that much bad information coming into your head ever couple of minutes?
Simone: And the shame, oh, the shame killed me. And, um, I’m so grateful that I have—I know that there are people who will listen to me and not judge me and that there are people who will listen to me and judge me. And either way it’s ok. Um, the point is that I don’t have to keep it inside anymore. I don’t have to hide it. I don’t have to hide behind anything anymore. And um that has been such a gift, to be able to talk to people about it and get it off my chest and just get it out of my head.
Paul: Let’s get to some love.
Simone: Some love! Love is all we need.
Paul: I’ll start. I love the feeling of acceptance when a guest agrees to come on the show.
Simone: Awwww. Uh, I love my family.
Paul: Uh, I love the feeling of intimacy with a guest when they get choked up.
Simone: Hmmm… I love laughing.
Paul: Uh, I love a warm and fuzzy email.
Simone: I love making people laugh.
Paul: I love milling an old piece of lumber and making it look new again.
Simone: Mmm that’s amazing. My grandfather was a carpenter.
Paul: Oh yeah?
Simone: Mmm-hmmm. Um, I love Winnie and Peter.
Paul: Uh I love making my nephews laugh or smile.
Simone: I love singing with my friend Jenny.
Paul: I love playing games with my nephews.
Simone: I love walking.
Paul: I love making my wife laugh by saying what I think the dogs are thinking.
Simone: Awww …. I love that. I love yoga.
Paul: I love hearing someone I respect compliment me.
Simone: I love telling people how amazing they are.
Paul: I love finishing traffic school.
Simone: I love giving my love for fun and for free.
Paul: I love the moment in the song Give Me Shelter when the backup singer’s voice cracks.
Simone: Nice.
Paul: Mary Clayton, by the way, is her name.
Simone: Where am I? I love giving love for fun and free. I might have already said that one.
Paul: I love it when a song has silence in it and the next thing you hear is the singer taking in a breath to start it again.
Simone: That’s beautiful. I love getting dressed up.
Paul: I love when my friends laugh at my pomposity and I’m able to truly laugh at myself instead of pretending to because that would make look good and hide my desperate need for approval.
Simone: (laughs) I love hugging friends.
Paul: I love revealing something about myself to somebody and it’s met with them doing the same thing and we both wind up feeling less freakish.
Simone: I love wearing wigs.
Paul: Uh, I love, uh, going out in public in my slippers.
Simone: I love taking naps.
Paul: I love when Greg Behrendt rolls his “r”’s on Walking the Room.
Simone: I love watching reruns of Charmed.
Paul: I’m gonna go—I’m gonna use some of the, some of the listener, uh, loves, from our Facebook page. Amanda Zimmerman says, “I love the warm blankets you get in the hospital right after you have a baby.”
Simone: Awww …. Uh, I love the internet (laughs).
Paul: Uh, Dean Batino writes, “I love that there’s a comment section on the internet where no one’s being cynical or snarky.”
Simone: Aw, that’s so funny, because one of the things that I love is I love commenting on blogs.
Paul: Awesome. Dean also says, “I love old video games.”
Simone: I love bad TV.
Paul: Uh, Hank Thompson says, “I love the cool underside of a pillow.”
Simone: I love going to the dentist.
Paul: Amanda says, “I love cooking food for others.”
Simone: I love cleaning the house.
Paul: Ronnie Schiller Johnson says, “I love it when a stranger approaches me with guileless honesty.
Simone: I love eating food, especially desserts.
Paul: Uh, Shaun Cathleen Howard says, “I love coming to the realization that I am not alone or crazy.”
Simone: I love hanging out by myself.
Paul: I’m gonna agree with this one, Dean also says, “I love Mike McCray’s impression of Rip Torn on The Hollywood Drunk Tank.” That’s on Jimmy Dore’s, uh, podcast.
Simone: Hmmm. Um, I love, uh, meeting brilliant and creative people.
Paul: Jenny Pineo Lopes, or is it Lopez? L-O-P-E-S, writes, “I love that I have a job that allows me to listen to podcasts all day.”
Simone: I love your podcast.
Paul: Awww … Um, Kevin Norcross says, “I love the tingle when I hear the Halloween theme song.” That’s a good one.
Simone: I love writing for a beauty column because I get free products.
Paul: Sweet. Uh, Melissa Scott says, “I love it when I am outside doing strong, adventurous stuff.”
Simone: I love praying.
Paul: Uh, Dan Willinsky (sp?) writes, “I love any workout that doesn’t end with old naked guy destroying the blissful glory that is the locker room.”
Simone: That’s awesome. Um, I love reading.
Paul: Um, Amber Bright says, “I love my dog’s under bite.”
Simone: Awww … I love my dog’s snore.
Paul: Uh, Brandy Jan writes, “I love baking cakes and writing sarcastic things on them.”
Simone: That’s brilliant. I love hot tea.
Paul: Uh, Ronnie Schiller Johnson writes, “I love a quiet, lazy rain with fat drops that fall on the leaves and no wind.”
Simone: I love guitar in my living room.
Paul: Uh, Ronnie says, “I love cheering for my friends.”
Simone: I love falling asleep on the beach.
Paul: Uh, Sara Rose writes, “I love knowing that when I’m struggling the most in life, I’m probably growing the most. It used to be so scary to struggle.”
Simone: That’s amazing. I don’t have any more love. That said it all (laughs).
Paul: I’ve got no more love to give.
Simone: That’s not so much, but that said it all.
Paul: Like a ‘60’s soul singer.
Simone: That was it, that was the one.
Paul: That was a good one. Anything you want to add, uh … ?
Simone: No, just, uh, thank you for, you know, doing this with me, this was fun. This was fun. It was great meeting you.
Paul: It was great meeting you too. And, uh, people can, uh, y-your blog is called Say it Simone, S-i-m-o-n-e. Uh, and the web address is …
Simone: sayitsimone.com or simone-says.com. Or you can Google “simone says” or Twitter or all that. I’m all over the internet.
Paul: Right on. Well, thanks, uh, thanks for coming on, and, uh, meeting you.
Simone: Thank you so much.
Paul: Many thanks to Simone, uh. Be sure to go check out h-her blog, it’s really funny a-and honest, which I’m sure you can tell from her, uh, from her interview.
Um, a couple of people to thank before, I, uh, take it out with a couple of readers’ surveys. Um, I want to thank the audio collecting team: uh, Debbie, Megan, Tim, Zack and Matt, who heads it up. And the transcribing team headed up by Jennifer with, uh, Angela and Angela. We of course remember their great dance music from the ‘80’s. Uh, also, Christen, Sean, Hannah, Juanie, Sherry, Nate, Wendy, and Amy. Also thank the guys on the spam patrol on the forum: John, Michael, Manny and Dan.
And, uh, if you would like to support the show, there’s two ways you can do it. You can do it financially by going to the website, mentalpod.com, and making a PayPal donation. You can do a single, or my favorite, which is a monthly recurring donation. You can donate as little as $5 a month. Um, you can also, uh, support the show by using our Amazon search box, and, uh, that way when you buy something through that search box, Amazon gives us a couple nickels. Doesn’t cost you anything. You can also buy a t-shirt at the—at our website. It’s got the mentalpod logo on it.
And you can support the show non-financially by going to iTunes and giving us a good rating. That boosts the ranking and brings more people to the show. And you can also, um, support it by spreading the word. Go on Reddit and Facebook and any place—and, uh, Tumblr—any place you can help spread the word, that really, really helps and it gets me closer to my dream of doing this as a fulltime job.
All right. Let’s get to the surveys. Uh, this first one is from a woman who calls herself, uh, Karate Girl. She’s straight, she’s in her thirties. Uh, never been sexually abused. “Deepest, darkest thoughts?” She writes, “I will have these thoughts that pop into my mind of hitting people or whacking people with something even though I would never actually do that. But I do not know why these thoughts show up.” I’d say because you’re a human being. Uh, she writes, “They are disturbing to me and I feel guilty for even thinking them.” Um, put an end to that because that is a waste of time. Um, she writes, “If someone could read my thoughts, they would think I’m possibly violent. I’m a pacifist and I don’t like confrontation or violence although I have been a victim of violence in the past.” Well, to me that’s not a shock then that these violent images would come up in your head. I-I think that that’s really human what you’re experiencing.
“Most powerful sexual fantasies?” She writes, “Two men getting it on together. I sometimes think there is a gay man trapped in me. I’ve had fantasies of men dressed as women and having sex with each other or sex with themselves. I like to watch men masturbate with fetishes, like wearing pantyhose or using dildos.”
“Would you ever consider telling a partner or close friend your fantasies?” She writes, “If he mentions something about a threesome with another man, maybe, otherwise I would keep it to myself.”
“Deepest, darkest secrets?” She writes, “When I was little girl, from five till preteens, I liked to put on pantyhose, my bathing suit, and put a stuffed animal between my legs and lay on my bed and masturbate. I did it almost every day. I taught my little sister and brother how to do it but I was around 8 or 9 and I feel ashamed that I did that, but I was probably coping with the pain that I deal with. It was probably an escape. I’ve always had family troubles. We did not get along. I have four sisters and two brothers. My parents were not affectionate. I was constantly bullied at school and into high school. I was violent when I was young. I stabbed my sister in the head with a fork.” By the way, if you’re gonna stab, stab with a fork. “I threw an ashtray at my sister and split her head open. But I was also beaten up by my older sisters and kids at school. I was spanked almost every day by my dad. There was one time I was babysitting during my teens and the girl wanted to use a knife. And she was too young but I was really bad at saying “no” and she cut herself. When her dad found out, I lied and said that I did not allow her to use the knife and she got into trouble. But I was too much of a coward to admit it was my fault for allowing her to use the knife. Every time I think about it, I have a deep sense of guilt.” Wow. If that, if that is as deep as the stuff that you’re feeling guilty about, you got nothin’ to worry about. You are a, in my opinion, like I said, I’m not a therapist, but, uh, I have done improv at, uh, some very select clubs in Chicago to crowds of over fifteen people and I think that entitles me to say that you are a worrier. And you need to go much easier on yourself.
Um, “Any comments to make the show better?” She writes, “I really enjoy the show and it’s great to know that I am not the only sick, twisted person with a sick and twisted past.” It just amazes me how hard we can be on ourselves. And it’s so easy to be compassionate for other people but, uh, God, we’re our own worst enemies.
This is a survey from, um, a woman named Angelina. She’s straight. She’s in her twenties. Um, “Ever been the victim of sexual abuse?” She writes, “When I was 16 I had sex with a man who was probably in his late 30’s. I hardly knew him and I didn’t want to sleep with him, but he told me he would be with me if I did. Thinking back on it, it’s so sickening and ridiculous. I saw him maybe twice. Each time for no longer than 20 minutes. I don’t even think I knew his real name.”
Um, “Deepest, darkest thoughts?” She writes, “I would be better off dead because at least that way I could stop fucking up my life.”
“Most powerful sexual fantasy?” She writes, “Every time I’m in a relationship, ever since my very first boyfriend when I was a teenager, I fantasize about my boyfriend having sex with another woman in front of me or with me. I cannot reach orgasm without thinking about this. The sickest part of it all is that the thought of the man I love actually cheating on me or having sex with someone else makes me physically sick to my stomach. This is clearly a sign of my low self-esteem.”
“Would you ever consider telling a friend or partner your fantasy?” She writes, “Never. Although there have been times when I have hinted around the topic of other women when I was very drunk, I’ve also gotten physical with them a couple of times in front of my boyfriend. Instead of finding it hot, I think he just lost all respect for me.”
“Deepest, darkest secrets?” She writes, “I have herpes. I have never told anyone that I have slept with. I know this sounds completely fucked up and selfish, which it is, but I know that if I told, nobody would give me a chance. I have never passed this on and I am extremely careful, which is no excuse, but I have never been able to share this secret. I’ve even lied to myself to the point where I am often in complete denial as well.”
“Do these secrets and thoughts generate any particular feelings towards yourself?” She writes, “Disgust, guilt, worry, sadness, and self-pity.”
“Any comments to make the podcast better?” She writes, “I love your show and I love that you never judge. After the reading the things that I confessed to, I hope you don’t judge me.” My, my—I, you know, no, I—one of the things that I love about doing this podcast is that people feel free enough to be able to write their deepest, darkest things, and, um, I can’t imagine how hard that would be, um, having herpes, and what I would do in your position. So, I’m not gonna judge you. Um, but it would be nice if you could be easier on your, on yourself about all that other stuff and your life. Um again, we’re so fucking hard on ourselves.
Um, this is a survey from a guy named Mike. He’s straight, he’s in his 30s. Never been sexually abused. “Deepest, darkest thoughts?” He writes, “I feel like completely cutting myself off from my friends and family, to the point where they think I faked my death. Even though I haven’t moved, I want to do this to see if anyone would check up on me and how many weeks, months, years, it would take.”
“Most power sexual fantasies?” He writes, “Much younger but of age women. The very few long-term relationships I’ve had have been with girls 8 to 10 years younger, which lasted into my early twenties,” I’m sorry, “into my early thirties.” Boy, into my early twenties would have definitely meant something different than in my early thirties! He writes, “I haven’t done this since I reached my mid-thirties, which has actually led me to not have sexual relationships with any women and even very few dates. I still fantasize about being with younger women. And my Google history probably reflects that.” How awful a punishment would it be if one year one person was selected and at Super Bowl halftime, they had to go to the fifty-yard line while we, on a big screen, got to see their Google history for the year. (laughs) Oh my God.
Um, “Would you ever consider telling a partner or close friend your fantasies?” He writes, “I’ve had some of the younger girlfriends act like Catholic high school girls – the outfit: white shirt, pleated skirt – because I asked. They seemed to be into it. I don’t if I’d ask a girlfriend closer to my age in a relationship to do the same thing, because she might think I’m a creep.”
Uh, “Deepest, darkest secrets?” He writes, “I feel like I have depression but don’t seek help. I have a very stagnant life filled with very few adventures and even less movement. My life is very routine and very simple. I work jobs that barely pay the rent and I never grasp for anything else. All my friends are more successful in their lives when it comes to relationships, families and careers.”
“Do these secrets and thoughts generate any particular feelings towards yourself?” He writes, “I feel alone most of the time. I don’t make any attempts to go out and meet new people, especially don’t go out to meet potential girlfriends. Dating sites are even useless to me, as I’ll try to strike a conversation, and the recipient either will not respond or the conversation will quickly die after a few messages. Also, I’m having a harder time relating to my friends every time we hang out, which has become less and less often as their lives grow and mine doesn’t. Most of all, it makes me ugly and a loser. I don’t know if therapy will help when all I really need to do is get a better job and go on a few dates.” Um, you know, I-I don’t know much, but I think therapy would help, um, sure, getting some dates and maybe switching jobs might also improve your mood, but the awesome thing about therapy is no matter what’s happening in your life, if you really get some good therapy, you’re able to roll with it and often that can then lead to being the kind of a positive person that is more attractive at a job application, or more attractive to somebody, you know, on a first date. So that’s, that’s my take on it. Um, but, um, I think your, your situation is so incredibly common. I had so much of those feelings in my, in my twenties, uh, I just felt like the world was passing me by. And I can tell you, if we don’t work on ourselves, that feeling never goes away. And it’s a terrible feeling to live with. I-it—sometimes I get rid of it, and other times it comes back, but, I think that’s one of life’s toughest, toughest battles. So my heart goes out to you. My heart goes out to all you guys that fill out the surveys and send me your emails. It, uh, it—they make me feel good, and I know that sounds fucked up, but they make me feel less alone. They remind me that the battles that I have in my head are not unique and, it—sometimes it’s nice, and this may sound fucked up and selfish, but it allows me to see the progress that I’ve made. Because it’s nice. It’s nice to turn around sometimes and say, “Yeah, God, I remember when I felt like that.” And when you’re having one of those days when you feel like you’re stuck, and you haven’t done anything in the last ten years, it’s nice to be reminded that all that work you put in, in support groups and therapy and stuff like that has, has paid off. So I hope that makes sense.
Um, I want to thank, uh, thank you guys for, for being, being there for me and sending your emails and picking me up when my depression is bad, which it was th-this last week – it was a real motherfucker. And, um, I’m feeling OK right now, I went to my support group tonight, got a lot of love there, but, uh, the last two days it’s just been naps and fucking self-hatred and, um, not so much—just feeling like I’m fucking lazy. And I’m so tired of being depressed and feeling like I’m lazy and that if I was just more of a go-getter I wouldn’t be stuck in that, in that place, but, um, thank God for, thank God for my wife. And, uh, anybody out there that has a spouse, you know, I want to give you some advice th-that my wife—because I asked her, how do you handle living with me? And she said, “I look at your depression as something like the flu. I know it’s not a choice that you’re making, and, as a result, I don’t take it personally that you sometimes don’t feel like going out.” And I have to say, she gives me so much fucking compassion. And, um, it’s a beautiful thing. It’s a beautiful thing. On those days when you can’t find any compassion for yourself, it’s really nice to have somebody else give you, give you some.
So if you’re out there and you’re stuck, it can get better. It absolutely can. And you are most definitely not alone. Thanks for listening.
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