other entertainment industry folks out there?

[Powerpac7]

Hi All

I realize that Paul is in the entertainment industry but it seems entirely unfair to put all "reach outs" on him. His podcasts are gifts enough. I've been in the entertainment industry for a very long time and 3 years ago things really dried up. I mean, I've worked maybe half dozen gigs after working almost 365 days a year for a very long time.

I feel so broken not being able to make a living doing what I do. I'm literally looking at Walmart jobs and it just seems so defeating. I've never turned to substance abuse or drugs. I know I should volunteer to get outside myself but when finding rent money is a 24/7 concern I don't see that helping right now.

Every day my goal is to not give up. But MAN! its a bitter pill to swallow that your 25 year career and a thin dime will get you a cup of coffee for how much it is valued.

I'm supposedly one of those people who are stupidly talented but really don't feel it

I sure could use the love and support of other folks who can relate right now.

I know that clinical depression is very much present. My doctor says it is so circumstantial that it is hard to see it as a chemical problem. I saw a psychotherapist who said "your problem is you peaked too soon!" Wow, that's REALLY helpful doc.!

I wonder if there might ever be the opportunity to organize an online group chat sometime? Or a once a week Skype room chat?

Anyway, I'm mostly venting and reaching out. I swallow my pride and every day apply for minimum wage part time jobs, I dumb down my resume, but any smart employer sees I'm bright, articulate and have lived a career and knows I'm not going to fall in love with a $9/hr. 15-20/wk job when they can hire a kid.

I don't want to be all "hallmark" and say I feel empty when I'm not being creative, and I get that one can be creative "on the side"...but man-oh-man!

I feel like such a ZERO!

I fantasize about trying to contact Rosanne Barr (how???) and go work on her nut far so I can get back to Hawaii where I live and maybe find myself in a nut tree! Somehow Rosanne seems crazy enough to get it!

Well friends, thanks for reading

[Paul Gilmartin]

PowerPac,

Thanks for your nice words. I am about to join the ranks of the unemployed in a few weeks. The work has dried up for me as well. I'm fortunate in that the rent isn't a pressing issue just yet. Keep your chin up.

Paul

[Powerpac7]

Thank you Paul. I am happy to welcome the support of anyone on the forum during this time. This weekend I give my final notice on my lease and will have 60 days to pack up and move cross country back to a very small home town and move (temporarily) into my parents basement. At 48 it is humbling. I just wasn't prepared string a bunch of sole sucking part time jobs together just to make ends meet in a large urban EXPENSIVE city, in hopes of the "dream" being around the corner.

So, it is what it is right now. And the support I need is in trying to find the good things that can come of this move. I'm not particularly attached to my "stuff" and so trying to sell it off is not too painful and cheaper than shipping it 1000's of miles. My parents are elderly and will benefit from my assistance.

They understand I am both stressed and depressed. To be honest, I don't think that this is anything that an anti-depressant would have made easier, or given me an alternate decision. What I do realize is that if I am to survive the next 8 weeks I must find some hope in all of this rather than seeing it as a crumbling dream. I don't mean to marginalize the "entertainment biz" as being terminally unique when it comes to debt, job loss, finance strain, etc. Its just that the usual scenario goes something like someone loosing a 9-5 job and the hope being that maybe it will lead to them finding their true passion. My problem is, I had been living my true passion. I just couldn't find a way to keep the bills paid after 25 years of doing extremely well. I feel like a fuck up. Not productive, especially at a time like this. so your support is appreciated. I need ot come up with "one good thing that comes from this" a day to make it. I can't cry...I'm just fucking mad.

[MarcD]

Hey there PowerPac7,

I definately know how you feel. I've been through what you're going through at least twice so far in my life, and I'm 28. I work as a puppeteer, and about 4 1/2 years ago I got an opportunity to move out to the Pacific NW and work for a company that was working on parade characters for Disney. This was a HUGE step up and it felt like a validation of my career choice. Also, I was 24 and had always lived with my parents, and this would be the first time I lived outside of my childhood home. I loved the experience, but the position was only temporary, which I knew but I held out hopes that I could get hired on. I didn't make plans for the future, so even though I was living in a great new exciting city and had a bunch of new friends, I had to move back to Chicago because I hadn't bothered looking for a new job. What came next was a loooooong bought of depression that lasted for months, if not over a year, where I felt like a failure of having to move back in with my parents to save on money and couldn't be out on my own and working in that great city.

Fast forward to now, and I got ANOTHER chance to move back out to the Pacific NW and work with another company. This time around, I was going to be writing and designing an original show for a puppet company and work with them as a touring performer. The touring gig was going to have me on the road, 15-20 days out of the month, for 10 months straight. When I wasn't performing, I was writing and designing this original show, helping build it with a crew of people, and start work on my own show that I could perform for birthday parties. I had a lot of high expectations and perhaps that set myself up for a fall. However, I look back on things again and think that there was a lot stacked against me, or anyone in my situation. The company I wound up working for was a 40 year old non-for profit company that was being run as if it was a 3-4 year old mom and pop business. My original partner, who was a returning company member and who I was starting to get to know, quit on the the first day of work for a better paying position. I was then teamed up with the company's second choice, a young girl who was 25, fresh out of college, and had never done this type of work before and this job was her real first professional gig outside of college. We rubbed each other the wrong way from the beginning and it just went down hill over the next several months. Some of the problems were from her, some of it was how the company refused to deal with the situation, and some of the problems stemmed from me. I wasn't willing to grin and bear it and just keep things in, and I was unhappy and didn't take the time to appreciate my time on the road.

When my time with that first company ended, they had me on a seasonal contract and had burnt a bridge with me and I wasn't interested in coming back, I had several things lined up for the summer. The one job that did work out seemed promising and was going to be paying better than the last one. I was going to be working for a smaller company, performing shows around Seattle, and making enough money over a month and a half to make a nice nest egg to support myself with once that seasonal contract ended. After a month of rehearsal, and a week before I was going to go out to Chicago to attend my sister's wedding, I was fired from this second company. The reason? From the beginning I made it clear that I didn't have a car to tour with, and was told that the company would provide a company car. That was back in January when I first auditioned for them, and in that entire time THEY NEVER LOOKED AT THEIR FINANCES and assumed they had enough money for a car. Turns out they didn't, and had to fire me for someone who had their own car.

After a long year of a lot of ups and downs (including dealing with a room mate who had a mental breakdown when she went off her meds for schizophrenia and the death of my last grandmother) and not finding a "normal job" for over 2 1/2 months, I decided to move back to Chicago. On September 2, I fly back out and for the rest of this month I'll be packing, working on my own puppet show before it gets boxed up, and trying to enjoy this city before I go. It's been bitter sweet, but ultimately I'm better off. I was beating myself up for a long while when I made this choice because I felt I hadn't tried hard enough. After enough of that, I realized that I HAD tried hard enough, and was surprised I hadn't packed up and moved a while ago. I'll be working the job I left when I was in Chicago, at a security company in an office behind a desk answering phones. A little boring at times, but it pays very well and allows for the flexible schedule I'll need when I get my birthday show done. In September a good friend who is also a puppeteer will be helping me finish my show and he'll be working as a booking agent for my work. I'll be staying in a first floor apartment in a house that a family member will be a landlord. It could be a lot worse, but it's not. I'm very lucky, and so are you, that we're not on the street trying to survive and being too stubborn to not work a job that is "beneath us." I don't feel like a failure, and it takes a lot of courage to come back to the place you thought you'd never go back to. I have a lot more resources and support in Chicago than I do here, and it's for the best.

Your not alone, and I know a little bit of how you feel. I hope you're doing well and that you're getting some good deals on the possessions your selling. I'll be doing that soon, too.

[Powerpac7]

Hi MarcD
Thank you for taking the time to share your journey so far with me. Funny, I always wanted to be a professional puppeteer. I was obsessed with puppetry as a kid. But the Broadway stage took me instead. I realize that no one goes into the Entertainment field expecting to be rich. You do it because you must. If rich is a by product, nifty. I wasn't rich. But living in Hawaii by 30 with my own beach house was nice. To contrast that with now....

My apartment quite literally echoes as I type on the computer keyboard. The sofa, love seat, book shelves, chairs, all sold. More to sell still. "Stuff" tends not to appreciate in value like Gold does! I got about 1/8th of what I paid originally.
Oddly, that is much the way I feel about my situation. I was valuable, I don't appreciate in value, and I'm now worth 1/8th of what I once was!

Not to marginalize the Entertainment industry and make it terminally unique. I suspect many people identify with what they do. Every one can relate to success feeling good. So perhaps if I've always considered myself to be vulnerable, I most assuredly am now.

At 48, living in my parents basement, in a town of 300,000 with several siblings being dead set against the idea (but parents supportive) does not speak from living from a place of POWER!

In the spirit of Paul's "Fear-off" right now my biggest fear is that I'll get there, go nuts, rent a car, drive out of town, and drive myself off a cliff somewhere. When I left that town I was 93 pounds overweight and voted least likely to succeed at what I did. I changed all of that. Going back makes me terrified that all I've done will become undone.

I don't want my fear and anger to be focused at my parents. This I know. I'll have to "own" every moment of panic and just tell them I'm freaking out rather than make an counter-issue just to mask my real pain. Trouble is, no one wants to be turning to their 88 year old parents and say "i'm afraid i'm not going to make it mom and dad".

I need to be seen as "somebody". Every time I've come home I have rode the wings of success. Now, when folks say "Hey, are you visiting?" or worse "What is your next project" I'll have to either lie, or be honest and say "I couldn't make it on my own any more. And there is no "next" project. I'm unemployed, have been more often than not lately. And I'm off to apply for a cashier job at Wal-mart."

Not the dream I'd hoped for my life.

Your reply reminds me that at least life is not static and things do change. I hope to god I can hang on that long.

[American Russ]

Powerpac7,

Well, from reading all of this, besides being able to tell how you feel about your situation and the emotions that keep rattling through you, one MAJOR thing shines: You seem like a REALLY good person. And if that's true, then something else is to be thought about...
You're a successful human being. Even if you're going into Wal-Mart with a new cashier's position, just remember when you look around to other employees and customers, JUST REMEMBER what've you done in comparison. And maybe, maybe it's your turn to "pay it forward"... so to speak. Most people in the entire world haven't accomplished what you have and most of them probably never will. But, people like you have other very important roles in life at 48, 58, 68, 398475 whatever! Maybe you can take your talents and accompanied by your unyielding work ethic shine them in a different direction to the benefit of others in need. This kind of good work coming out of compassionate, talented people like yourself is what can help keep the world stay fuckin' cyclical. We need good people doing good things through example and action and leadership fueled by humanity and the outright understanding of what it means to have loved and to have lost. As we all know, doing something for others really can make us feel better. And there's nothing at all wrong with that.

I think a good example of what I'm talking about is what Paul has done with this podcast. He's 48 (and I'm not implying that Paul's at the end of his funny rope or career or anything like that) and he's taking his talents elsewhere, a new direction. And you know what those talents have ended up doing? Helping people like you and myself understand that we're not alone in all of this swampy shit. Someone's got a flashlight with good batteries.

My rantings are charged by love and restrained by anxiety. I don't even know you but I'm pretty sure I believe in you.

[MarcD]

I agree with American Russ, Powerpac7. What you've accomplished up till now is HUGE, and not everyone can say that. Yes, you might be engaging in work that isn't the same level or area where you want to have a career, so what? Right now, and you NEED to keep this in mind, it is a means to an end. It is just a bridge that you are using to get yourself someplace else. By no means consider cashier or other jobs as being so lowly that you're above it all and the people you'll have to work with when I say that it's a means to an end, by the way. Just know that what your doing isn't going to be forever and it will support you, as long as you make an effort to do the work and do it well, while you sort things out and get back on your feet. Besides, the change of scenery and job will make you hungry and put a fire under your ass to do YOUR own thing. And it will happen if you can ease up off yourself and give yourself some breathing room.

Something that might help out is to find and apply for jobs that might go along some of the lines of your career. Have you thought about teaching acting? Is there a community center, high school, colelge, or a performing arts center in your area that is looking for instructors? Do you have any friends who might be running a youth group or community theater that needs a director, acting coach, choreographer, etc?

Something a puppeteer friend of mine did when he moved to Seattle, to keep his sanity until he could get his own business up and running, applied to work at a local zoo as a guide for the leopard santuary. As a performer, he was able to convince the folks in charge that they needed someone who could memorize facts and information that the officials wanted the public to know about the animals and translate that in a fun, entertaining way that would make them to come back. He worked there successfully, in kahkis and pith helmet, until he got his own business going.

As far as your siblings go, well, have they pursued what you've done? Have they gone out on a limb with their lives to pursue something their passionate about? If they haven't, well, then their opinions really don't matter. They're not the ones helping you out, your folks are. You're only a leech if you feel you are. If you KNOW that you're doing what you can to find work, support yourself, and try to forgive yourself.

[Powerpac7]

Thank you both for you love and support. When you said "I don't know you but I'm pretty sure I believe in you" my eyes welled up with tears. I DO admire what Paul has done with his podcast, but I'm almost certain it is a healing too for himself, as well as those of us who he touches. But I'm almost certain he is not getting rich from the idea. It doesn't make it less valid!
You see...I don't want to work at Walmart. I don't want that for myself. It's a lovely idea to think that I might bring some new found energy, vision and support to other staff members. But lets face it...it would be a step into non-union, under paid, ethically questioned business practices..the list goes one. I was exaggerating with that job thought to make more of a statement of what I feel I'm worth at this stage. Its me in my famous self flogging mode which I realize bores the best of folks.
I have literally hundreds of proposals, resumes, "nothing ventured, nothing gained" files and letters and resumes that I've sent. I'm exhausted truth told...I have found every possible way to parlee what I have accomplished into something. Three Tony award winning productions, small roles in major motion pictures...great scrapbooks...University educated, published...and it means nothing in the job world. I did not persue a post grad degree and so teaching on that level can't happen.

Each spring I'm lucky enough to take a little contract and judge and speak to hundreds of young hopeful performers in competitions. I judge them, award scholarships...I speak to them. It's a week of "love in" and at the end, I'm in tears as an auditorium stands up and applauds what I've given them. I look for the least talented of them all and try to make even that person feel like they have a right to be in front of others.

What they don't know is I'm giving them that which I need so much. And perhaps that is the greatest gift of all. But it is a fleeting job that pays a few 1000 dollars and then the gig is up. And it makes me feel so fucking good...and so fucking alone all at the same time. I go back to my hotel room and literally drown my sorrows in a tub of ice cream. Sugar is my drug. And no one knows that I want is to have some who knows me, tell me I can do it.

It's pathetic and such a fucking self indulgent pity party. But it's what I know how to do best, and I love it ....and I want to keep giving in that capacity and I can't find a venue.

So I am literally going back to a small town with infinitely less potential. The only thing I can hope for is that the "big fish in a small pond" sydrome wins out here.

Look, I don't mean to insult the barely minimum wage, part time, Walmart crowd. But I have a bigger dream for myself and I can't do it alone anymore.

I'm so sorry I am writing like this. It seems like such a pathetic cry. I once heard an actor say, when interviewed about landing a lead role in a major project "hitting this height only means I know know how far it is down when I fall".
I was in a show with this actor at the time....I'll never forget my ex having seen the show one night with friends. Everyone gathered for drinks, and while I sat there they all discussed how amazing this actor was. It was as if they forgot I was in the production too. I felt invisible.

I sort of feel invisible now. Or, more accurately ...irrelevant.

God, I hate this post....it's where I'm at.

[Kilohertz]

Hey PowerPac7. If you have come back to this forum I just wanted to say hi. I hope you are still alive. I don't make that comment in jest. When you are in a Depression and depressed it's hard to keep going.

Paul stays away from politics on the podcast because depression spans the political spectrum, but I think that he might should consider talking about the economy as a trigger for depression. I've suffered from depression for 30 years, but it gets worse when the economy is worse. If I'm working I can focus on other things. I also pull in when I'm depressed and if I'm working with people that's harder to do.

In the political forums and conversations that I frequent, one of the issues that come up is, "Why don't the unemployed organize?" There are a lot of reasons, one is that they are often depressed, ground down and discouraged from getting any job at all. Then they are told to accept the lowest of retail jobs. What a waste of all of our potential. Think about how during the Depression they hired artists. I'm sure assholes at the time considered it a waste of money, but that made a lot more sense than saying, "Okay everyone grab a shovel no matter what your skill set is." I'm sure those are the same assholes that believe that paying to kill other is a more valid use of money than inspiring with art.

I have no advice for you about being back in your hometown, both of my parents are dead. My older brother got to be the one living in the basement, I don't have that opportunity. I'm blessed to have a supportive wife, but I'm not happy that this economy and my depression combine to put extra pressure on her.

Maybe it's not really helpful, but I've become very focused on demanding that "the market" doesn't just run the world. That the Wall Street people who destroyed the world economy don't get to keep telling us that we the people need to keep "tightening our belts" and that the "government's budget is just like a family's" Not it's not. I can't run off money on my inkjet. I don't need to pay for policing my entire city and the cities of the other states.

After the dot-com crash I was in a group bemoaning my own lack of work and how I should have been smarter and figured out how to get work after 90% of my clients went belly up. A friend said, "That's pretty arrogant, that you should be the only one to figure it out and not be effective. It's not just about you and your skills, LOTS of people lost their jobs. You are not alone. This is a failure at a much bigger level, the entire industry is suffering." And I will say that to you, the entire country is hurting (with the exception of the top 2 percent they are doing great!) You are not alone in this unemployment pain.

To bring this back to the podcast, Paul is now unemployed maybe he can have some guests on who can talk about how depression is impacted by our Depression and how we can cope.

I remember hearing stories of kids who grew up during the Depression. One of the lines they often used was, "We were poor, but we didn't know it." or "everyone was poor around us." That isn't the story today. If you are poor and unemployed you feel it. You know how you were before you were unemployed and what that was like. You might have friends who aren't in the same boat and it's hard to hang with them with all their helpful suggestions. "You know what you should do--volunteer at a college!" To which I want to say, "You know what you should do? Go fuck yourself." Or, "Don't take the rejection personally." To which I want to say, "Right, they aren't rejecting me, just someone who looks like me and lives at my house, but they aren't rejecting ME!" Friends are well intentioned but the tricks that worked in earlier times don't work the same now.

I hope you are well. Let us know how you are coping.

[Powerpac7]

Hello Kilohertz and everyone who has contributed here.

Yes, I am still alive. I thank you all for you insight and sharing. What is weird is that there is nothing that has been said that I have not already considered. That's not to make light of your sharing...just to let you know that I really have been trying. I have about 20 different versions of my resume all which venture into territories as radical as a zoo. I'm moving to a very small town that doesn't have a lot, and sadly, teaching requires a certificate according to the laws of my state. I'm not suggesting that I have an excuse for every suggestion, just that I"ve tried SO very much. I have 150 applications alone into the airline industry because I think it would be fun to check people in at the airport since I've traveled so much. So I am trying to think outside of the successful box that has been the life of Broadway, Film and TV.

Every day is packing and purging and today the movers were secured on a credit card. I went with a discount mover because its all I could afford and hope that it is not a case of "you get what you paid for". I've thrown out a lot of memories and trust that having them in my head will be enough. I've sold all my furniture.

You know what I hate about depression?...too many people just get tired of you and bugger off. If I were diagnosed with Cancer tomorrow (god forbid) people would know what to do. Loved ones would call and ask "how are you ? Can I do anything for you? Because people know how to react. But depression is so fucking isolate and too many folks think you should just get over yourself.

I was in a group therapy session with folks that are barely able to get out of bed and are social paranoid, and not overly articulate. While I'm compassionate, and empathetic....me sitting there saying; "I auditioned for a major motion picture yesterday and was so close but didn't book it", well there was a huge imbalance in the mix.

Ok...I'm belly aching. I'm going to rely on this board over the next few weeks. My move is at the end of the month and I'm feeling mighty alone and low.

I actually LIED to a neighbour because I was so ashamed. She said: "you're moving?!" and I said yes, I've bought a condo on the west coast". I've never done that. It just rolled off my tongue because I didn't want her to know that in reality I'm broke after 6 figures a year, and moving to my parents basement. Clearly I am ashamed of myself.

I try to be gentle on myself, even if it means that I night, before bed, I light a bunch of candles and allow myself to have some esthetically pleasing sense of "home" for the next few weeks. It costs nothing but small tea lights and it gives me hope that I can be there for myself.

My best to all of you. I must remind myself that my struggle is not worse than anyone else here, even when I feel terminally unique